Can we do it better

Hi All

 

I was a bit disheartened when today I heard yet another story about an aircraft type that has had to undergo major structure repair and then re-repair without any safety releases, bulletins or even a simple notice being issued. We have in recent times enjoyed a decreasing level of accidents occurring which I personally feel is mostly attributed to the communication of potential safety issues throughout our sport. Apart from these forums, that has already brought to many of our colleague’s attention some very important safety repair issues, but this communication has largely emanated from the great work being done by Chris and the others in the RA-aus office. BUT, can we still do it better? Are we currently just balancing on the razor's edge of between the comfort of today's numbers and the increase of many more accidents that are about to happen due to the so called "technology advances" in our industry in which communication can be the weighing factor?

 

With this in mind I am asking the question why are we not receiving this all important information that can make the difference of life or death - CAN WE DO IT BETTER?

 

For example (just a couple that I have heard of - there are many others):

 

A Sting was found to have a severe crack in the front leg but was caught in time which didn't result in a catastrophic failure. The aircraft was sold and with not many hours later the front leg cracked again which did result in the leg collapsing (luckily only whilst taxiing) causing extensive damage to the aircraft. The incident was reported but no communication was made to existing owners or to anyone else. Also, the Sting distributor in New Zealand also had a front leg failure at just 80hrs and was repaired but still no news to anyone. Imagine just after you touch down you lower the nose and the front leg collapses, it digs you in and you flip over, being a low wing the force of the canopy hitting the runway breaks and then breaks your neck and you are killed or left a quadriplegic - if only you had known to pay very special attention to that front leg.

 

The Texan at Sunbury I am told had a Rudder Pedal failure and no mention of that has been made - I would not want to be flying when that happens and even worse if I didn't know that it had happened to another Texan. Plus, that same Texan at Sunbury I am told also had an Elevator Mass Balancer failure which was welded back up but then failed again and still no news, no announcements, nothing. I can only assume that these Texan failures were reported as the current Board member is the CFI so why were these failures not released?

 

A new Storch used in training had to have its main legs replaced after less then 50 hours as a pilot one day said they thought the aircraft looked a little lopsided - it was found the legs were bent and then later the front leg also failed and as I said all in less then 50 hours.

 

I am guessing that if I was killed due to a Sting that had a front leg failure or a Texan with a rudder pedal failure or elevator mass balancer failure andI hadn't been told then my wife would have grounds to sue - is something going on here - WHY are incidents like these not being released???

 

I am sure that everyone at the RA-aus office know how much I respect and admire the work and effort that they put in (if they don't then they should know by now) but come on guys this needs to be fixed and fixed NOW instead of reading about a leg failure on a nearly 500 hour CT that happened 9 months ago, we need to hear about things thathave just happened.

 

Here is a thought- instead of just AD's or AN's what about an open book on ALL incidents even if it was a maintenance fault, pilot error or anything - just one piece of information may save a life or if not anything else, it may help to make us more cautious when checking things.

 

Dare I say it but if there is any corruption or politics involved in preventing this from happening or things getting swept under the rug then for the sake of our lives those people should just make an excuse and leave the room.

 

X has left the building.....now let's start communicating!!!

 

 

 

Hi Ian

 

Add a rudder pedal failure on a Jab at Boonah. Takeoff speed into fence. Pilot luckily wasn't killed. Details sketchy at moment. Surprising amount of damage to fence and a/c written off.

 

Micgrace

 

 

Have seen a number of Jab Rudder pedals either broken or about to<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

They break away where the pedal is welded to the shaft shown by the arrow on the pic below

 

It is a good idea to inspect and if necessary strengthen the weld and add a small gusset

 

I have never seen a report filed about this problem although as you say Ian I don’t see a database of reports available to the members on the website. Maybe its there but if so its not easy to find and it should be.

 

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Add a rudder pedal on a C.T that was at Lethbridge vic. Very interesting about the Jab as an owner I had never heard of this, will have a bloody good look tomorrow.

 

 

Add a rudder pedal on a C.T that was at Lethbridge vic. Very interesting about the Jab as an owner I had never heard of this, will have a bloody good look tomorrow.

- MY POINT EXACTLY Geoff.If say I went out and bought a Jab tomorrow I would not have known this and whilst the onus is on me to do my pre-flight it is the things that we can't see that are the problems and it comes down to communication.

I could very easily set up a database here with search etc and with everyone entering anything they know - even anonymously - but it may not have the things in it that get reported like the Texan or Sting that I mention, and we can't have things as important as this fragmented - it should really only be in one central place - here if the RA-Aus would provide me with a copy of all reports to enter into the database or on the RA-Aus website.

 

 

 

a database of problems on this website would be great

 

Can not see it happening on the RAA site

 

there would undoubtedly need to be a good modererator to ensure they were substaniated

 

a bit of thought and it could be a real help for everyone

 

 

Ian would it be prudent to ask Teckman's view?

 

 

Geoff - anything as important as this OR has anything to do with the RA-Aus I always send them a copy of the post before I post it here just out of common decency and respect for the great work that they all do.

 

This gives them an opportunity to advise if any of my facts are incorrect or to make any comments first and depending on their comments I determine whether to post an edited version or even decide not to post it at all. In this case a copy was sent to Chris (Techman) and I waited till I received a response back before I posted it.

 

If Chris had advised me that the facts were incorrect or in any way different to what I had written then I may not have even posted this. I try to be as open, decent and professional to them as possible and I only ask that they reciprocate the same.

 

 

Re Texan rudder pedals - if you press them together at the same time, they WILL fail, as per the notice on the wall at Sunbury. The same thing happened on the Gazelles with both rudder pedals being pressed at the same time thus bending the rudder horn. One-off problems don'tnecessarily constitute a defect notice especially if they are pilot induced. If every failure was reported, we wouldn't be able to fly. The Sting you speak of was originally the result of a hard landing. I cannot speak of the NZ model, however unless you are the pilot you won't know what happened. Only the 1 Sting in OZ has suffered the nose-leg problem - just ask the guy that sells the spares.

 

 

The Sting you speak of was originally the result of a hard landing.

- Nosmo, I think you are going to get into some trouble there as I know the Sting owner very well (I prefer to believe my own eyes and the owner then the dealer) and he is not very happy about this not being brought to people's attention especially with it happening twice - once to the previous owner and then to him and definately not the result of heavy landing(s). Plus about pushing both pedals together - please re-read the origional post and all the other posts in this thread.The point here is not to discredit any aircraft or anything else - it has been made very clear in the post that the problem is about communication of which is not happening. Imagine if another sting's front leg callapses or another Texan's elevator fails or whatever else happens and a person is killed - can you imagine the uproar when they find out that it has happened before and no one was told. You say it only happened to that one sting but what about the next one - is that going to kill the operator. Do we have to let accidents happen twice before we tell anyone about the first one?

 

I have a great deal of respect for Chris and the team in the office but something needs to be done. As mentioned a database even with anon entries of things that people find, including pressing both pedals at once, would be of great benefit to all of us - I make the offer of providing that but only if all reports to the RA-Aus were also entered into it - as I said even anon.

 

I am very disheartened to hear you try and "fluff off" something about safety when it should be supported by all!!!

 

I will continue always to push and push and push keeping everyone honest when it comes to safety - this is not a game, I love to go out and fly till the sun comes down and then I love coming home safely to my wife and children

 

 

 

Well said Ian

 

 

Hi All

 

I get the impression a lot of incidents are not being reported. Any comments?

 

Micgrace

 

 

It's never been my point to "fluff off" any incidents.

 

One needs to question how the nose leg was repaired when it was first damaged by the original owner. It seems rather strange indeed that a nose leg would break off, be repaired, then coincidentally break off again on the same aircraft, yet it's not happening on others out there. It's about probability and statistics.

 

Yours and my interpretation of a "hard" landing are probably quite different. For me, anything other than perfect is not good enough but for others,a bit of a bounce might be ok. Some aircraft aren't built for a bit of a bounce on every landing.

 

As for Jabiru pedals - it would be unlikely that a Jabiru pedal would break off without warning. As a rule there would nearly always be a fatigue crack of some kind, unless brute force was applied on the one occasion.

 

I read that many of you are wondering why maintenance costs for GA are so high, particularly for 100 hourlies. I tell you why - it's because of the lengths they go to to inspect the aircraft, like pulling out the seats, pulling off the fairings, etc. I've seen LAME's with tiny mirrors inspecting exhaust components or similar with exact precision and to be honest I don't see that level of inspection in UL's. I've even been guilty of that myself to a degreee.

 

 

 

Hi

 

Don't forget if in doubt you could do a dye penetrant test of suspect parts on a reasonable regular basis. OK some special gear needed (UV light, dye kit)

 

As for GA costs, where else do you end up paying 4 hours to change the plugs and oil 1 hour for the job, 3 hours for the paper.

 

At the end of the day some u/l are going to be shoddily maintained due to disinterest, lack knowledge, resources. And some others are going to be maintained to a standard that exceeds aerospace /defence standards.

 

Just some thoughts, Micgrace

 

 

Ian,

 

the information I have on the Ruder Pedal failure of the Texan is that it was due to the pedal being forced beyond it's limits by the PIC whilst the aircraft was not moving - (ie Dry Turn). Whilst IMHO this should have been reported like any other incident I don't think it represents any shortcoming as far the aircraft itself is concerned. Put that one down to faulty user.

 

I have no information on the Mass Balance - have not heard of any issues with it. Flew it this weekend so I might research that one!

 

 

I see that my J160 pilot side rudder pedal stop photo has been used. Please note that the base will be extended each side of the tubes and extra bolts through the firewall added to secure the base of the stops.

 

If the stops are fitted as shown to go close to the middle of the pedal when the pedal is fully depressedwith excessive force there should be a very low bending force transmitted tothe welded junction of the pedal and the tube.

 

Thus most of theexcessive pilot leg force would be balancedby the pedal stop without excessively loading up the welded joint. Two instructors flying could still be a problem but maybe one of them has a parachute.

 

If the stop is mounted, incorrectly in myview,behind the pedal lever tuberather than the pedal itself the full force of the leg action will be exerted on the pedal tube weld junction and the weldwill eventually fail. The rudder pedal assembly comes with a test certificate.

 

There are two sets of (rudder) pedal stops and a set of stops for the rudder at the aft end of the fuselage. If all the stops and cable ends are set correctly the welds are protected as well as the rudder push pull/cable and the rudder from over travel.

 

Thefront wheel steering is set byadjusting two push rods to the front wheel UCconnected to the rudder pedal tubes not the pedals. So steering is also protected by limiting the pedal travel.

 

The steering on the Jabiru J160 is quite different from the earlier Jabiru LS55.

 

A point to note here is that if either steering rod were to fail then you have no left rudder pedal and depending on how the steering springs were set up the rudder could be biased to left or right. So it is essential to check that there is no bending of these vital adjustable rods and their ball joints and that they are secure.

 

So if you losethe front UC in a landing it is probably not safeto abort andgo round if you have not got a rudder under control.

 

Regards

 

 

Myy apologies for using your photos. They were very clear and it made it easy to point out where the problem occurs. On the ones that had broken, the stops were in line with the shaft and not the pedal, so it was still possible to put excessive force on the pedals at times ,which had probably contributed to the problem. Once the welds were strengthened there has been no more signs of any problems and yes they are checked very regularly.

 

 

Ian,

 

I agree with you in all aspects of what you are trying to achieve with this post, being the information distribution of incidents and technical defects of aircraft components, be they limited to a particular type or generically applicable to all.

 

Yes, I believe there should be a place where all defects should be listed without regard to whose aircraft it is and I would think that your forum here would be an ideal place to list people's experiences and problems with mechanical issues.

 

From an administrators point of view, yes, theoretically, all defects should be reported to the office. Defects that are reported, get published in the magazine under pilot and technical notes. Unfortunately, many defects that are reported never have the resultant root causes reported, so we have a copy of the problem, but do not know what the cause of the problem was.

 

Another reason why it would be good to have a database of issue on this forum is for those times when hearsay becomes fact, like the mass balance falling off the Texan. Caz has made it clear in no uncertain terms that this claim is not correct.

 

With regard to maintenance, lets face it, some people are simply pilots and have no interest in maintenance. Others wouldn't know where to start looking when conducting maintenance.

 

That is the attraction and the downfall of our org, people can do what they like (most of the time), yet they also don't tend to talk to anyone when things go wrong (or let the office know).

 

It is not any easy topic to 'cure', though will slowly come around through education (which I am working on trying to deliver) and peer pressure (relying on everyone else out there to do the right thing and confront others when they are doing the wrong thing). Especially with maintenance.

 

If you have a place on the forum for defect reports, perhaps I can find some time to put a few entries in.

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

 

Thanks Chris, that is great to hear. I am about to embark on a relaxing holiday but when I return I will contact you (might even call in the office on the way back from my holiday) to see what options there are and your suggestions on the best way to "DO IT BETTER".

 

As always - Thanks Chris

 

 

A big for the techman and Ian