aerobatic aircaft and endorsement

[Guest basscheffers]

If you have been taught spins (real ones) and correct recovery technique you would recognize the spin onset before another pilot who had never done spins.

I would expect any somewhat experienced pilot to recognize the stall that would precede the spin. With our kind of aircraft you would have to very positivly coax it into a spin with cross controlling, just a stall during a tight (but coordinated) descending turn is unlikely to do it.

I know, because that is exactly the kind of stall we practiced at altitude. The SportStar just starts to drop rather fast, but doesn't even consider going into a spin.

 

Again: doing one of these courses is a great way to increase your stick and rudder skills, especially if you go on to aerobatics. I'd like to do one! I just don't see any evidence that those who have done it are less likely to kill themselves because the kind of accident this may prevent is such an incredibly rare occurance. In some people it may even make them more dangerous through over confidence...

 

 

[naremman]

As a GA pilot of 37 years and a recent convert to RAA I find this an interesting issue. In gaining endosements on a Jabiru and Foxbat I found the stalls and stall in a turn rather indistinct. Only the Foxbat with flap and power on demonstrated a well defined nose drop on the stall. My instructor, a mature gentleman, with loads of GA & RAA instructional time intoned a "I would rather we didn't" when I mentioned incipients spins. From my observations both aircaft if operated within sensible limits are unlikely to spring any unexpected, or hairy moments.

 

I was fortunate to gain an aerobatic endorsement with John Douglas at the WA Royals just as I gained my unrestricted licence and purchased an Airtourer 100. I have enjoyed many hours of aeros for pleasure, and the skills I have gained from aerobatics have certainly enhanced my overall flying. The Airtourer is a good airframe for aeros, but be mindful that the altimeter unwinds at a fast rate. The stall and incipient spin are straight out of the textbook, though the spin is a bit unique to the Airtourer, and the transition into the spin can be lively with unusual audio effects.

 

I would rate the Tiger Moth as displaying the classic stall & spin characteristics of the aircraft that I have flown. The spin in a Chippie is a great example of a stabilised spin, but I remember that it takes a fair bit to get it stabilised, and then unstuck and a whole lot of vertical airspace has been chewed up.

 

The principle benefit of advanced stall/spin and aerobatic training is to recognise the onset of airflow distress and rectify the situation. In the event that it does go pear shaped sound recovery skills are a decided benefit.

 

Most aircraft flying today are inherantly stable, which is great for every day flying, but if that airframe "lets go" that stability might not be your friend.

 

If a reality check is needed look up some of the accidents incurred by Cessna 150s in mustering operations. Some images of the venerable old 150s "candled" into the deck are most sobering.

 

The previous posts advocating training for aerobatics in GA are prudent advise. Find a good instructor in the appropriate aircraft, and whilst the bill might give you a fright, it could well be a sound investment.

 

On another note. I put jabiru into the search function of You Tube and got directed to footage of a Jabiru doing a loop. My comments are probably not printable. Mate, you did RAAs cause no good, and hope like hell that I never fly an aircraft following your use. Maybe you could go to Bundaberg and offer your services for the destructive analysis of Jab aircraft!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Narremman, I could be wrong but think that Jab was overseas - agree with you, I could almost hear each strand of glass pinging

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Bass,What are you attempting to convey here? I am a little confused by your comment.

David

That it is a good thing for all instructors to have EMT/spin training. During stall training as well as unusual attitudes training, you are much more likely to depart controlled flight than under normal flying conditions. So knowing how to recover from it is a good skill to have.