Refuelling methods for ULP

[rgmwa]

Just curious to know what sort of equipment/methods those with Rotax and similar engines have adopted to refuel with ULP. ie. fuel trailers, drums, pumps, filters, funnels, etc.

 

No doubt this will have been covered before, but I can't find any threads on the topic, so any advice would be appreciated.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I have a 6x4 trailer with 200 liter drum on it, with hand pump that has an aviation grade filter.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Thanks Bass

 

Not sure what everybody else does, but from other comments I've seen it sounds like most pilots pick up a container of fuel at the service station on the way to the strip. I assume there's a decent filter somewhere in the loop as well.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I assume there's a decent filter somewhere in the loop as well.

You'd be surprised... I see many refuel directly from the jerry can; even it the can was filled through a filter, this is not good practice. The filter should be the last thing the fuel goes through before it enters your tank. (Barring the hose, of course.) There is no excuse for not using a Mr. Filter.

Well, there may be one excuse: when was the last time you heard anyone say: "my car stalled today, called the RAA and it turns out the fuel was contaminated!"? Is it any more likely in our aircraft?

 

 

[Tracktop]

Hi

 

Plastic Jerry's and always through a Mr Funnel into the ac

 

Mind you I don't ever see any contamination BUT it only takes once

 

to be a potential problem.

 

I have seen my Mr Funnel so full of unpassed water it filled to the top

 

and stopped passing fluid when processing some old crappy fuel at home

 

NO not processing for ac ( or in fact any engine) use :-)

 

So they do seem to work fairly well.

 

 

[Tomo]

I have a 6x4 trailer with 200 liter drum on it, with hand pump that has an aviation grade filter.

And I take it you use that up as soon as you can.... ;) Remember ULP doesn't store very well, and will go 'off' pretty quick.

 

20ltr plastic drums and a Mr Funnel here - for aircraft use anyway.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

And I take it you use that up as soon as you can.... ;) Remember ULP doesn't store very well, and will go 'off' pretty quick.

We go through a drum about every two weeks, sometimes one, sometimes three. The aircraft is used for training, it's not just me. :)

 

 

[Tomo]

We go through a drum about every two weeks, sometimes one, sometimes three. The aircraft is used for training, it's not just me. :)

Good, just making sure, surprising sometimes how many people don't realize it can go off.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Fuel only from the same major retailer and own test conducted at intervals for ethanol for this service station i use, 2 x 20 lt plastic fuel containers and Mr funnel when fueling the trike.

 

Never a drop of fuel ever been in the tank without going through the funnel and fuel tank always topped of completely full prior to coming offshore to work for 2 weeks.

 

And fuel tank drain after every fill and prior to next daily flight even if no fuel was added.

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Alf, how do you test for ethanol?

 

 

[markendee]

Ethanol test on youtube

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSQSuCiUjE"

 

 

[alf jessup]

Bass,

 

I put about 200 ml of water in a glass jar and mark the jar at the water level, then add about 500 / 600 ml of fuel into the jar and shake the bejeezus out of it and then let it settle for 5 or so minutes, if the water level rises above the mark the fuel has ethanol in it.

 

That is what and how i have been shown to detect ethanol in fuel.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Vev]

There are several ways for fuels to go “off” however in this context I think people are concerned about octane depletion when using Mogas compared to Avgas.

 

 

In very simple terms, Avgas has lower volatility and the components that give it its octane doesn’t evaporate off very easily … whereas Mogas has lighter more volatile components which evaporates more quickly thereby depleting the key octane boosting hydrocarbons in the process.

 

 

High quality well sealed container kept away from heat will slow the speed of octane depletion in Mogas. Unfortunately aircraft fuel tanks aren’t the ideal container … best not to store for too long in your aircraft.... fresh is best.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Tomo]

Remember ULP doesn't store very well, and will go 'off' pretty quick.

Hey T.....in what way does it not store well.....how does it go off??.....a genuine question.

Sorry Cfi, just noticed your question - and my answer to that would be like Veverjg's (he would be your man anyway because he deals in that department - oils etc)

 

Basically as Vev says, it looses it's "oomph" (to use a layman's term), so you won't be getting the full potential of it - also stuffs up plugs and what not if it's really old.

 

People have different 'old' periods, but for an aircraft I reckon I wouldn't touch it if it's been sitting for a month at the latest. Store it out of the sun by all means... a cool area is the best.

 

 

[monty]

Tomo,

 

What about two stroke fuel does it store OK in drums or not? for say the 503 in the Drifter. I never really though about it before. I mix two 50 ltr oil drums at a time and seal them, take out 20litres at a time in a jerrycan. Keep the Drifter full all the time.

 

Monty

 

 

[Tomo]

Tomo, What about two stroke fuel does it store OK in drums or not? for say the 503 in the Drifter. I never really though about it before. I mix two 50 ltr oil drums at a time and seal them, take out 20litres at a time in a jerrycan. Keep the Drifter full all the time.

Monty

How long do you take to use 100ltrs of pre mix?

 

Mixed fuel will last less time, or shall we say loose it's octane rating quicker than non mixed fuel - the fuel will evaporate, the oil won't, so you may end up with a stronger mix than what you started with. Generally as a rule I don't like storing mixed fuel for long. Also take in mind the oil may 'settle', so ensure you shake it up, mix it, do whatever before you take from it.

 

I know it's a pain, but I'd er on the side of storing mixed fuel if you can help it. Unless you're going to use it within the week etc...

 

Vev probably will be better at explaining the pro's and con's of it than me though -

 

 

[Vev]

Agree Tomo ... as a general rule it's aways best to bend as close to the time of use and if you have to store any fuels do so in full high quality containers in a cool place for short preiods.

 

Old saying ... "There's no fuel like new fuel and old fuel is like no fuel".

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[monty]

Thanks Guy's,

 

I fly nearly every day that I can so 100 ltrs lasts me about two weeks tops mostly about 7 to 10 days. depending on weather. but I will now just buy it as I need it. Thanks again, I just never gave it a thought.

 

Monty

 

 

[rgmwa]

Testing for Ethanol

 

Here's a useful EAA video showing how to test for ethanol ...

 

Hints for Homebuilders Video Player

 

 

[pete duncan]

Would the addition of a percentage (10 or 20) of avgas to ULP extend its storage time. Thinking of for use in 4 stroke rotax. It seems to me that while fuel is stored in the refinery in massive tanks that possibly are not alwas full and have vents we may have the volatiles slightly depleated . Then it is transported to our local pumps where it is remixed with old fuel in vented tanks and into our drums with definite strong odour thus volitiles loss and finaly into our aircraft of choice ( more pongy odour ) where we (like the cigarette) have fun burning the costly stuff . So is there any affordable tool/instrument that could be used to determine the octane still present after all that. And does it realy matter?

 

 

[Vev]

Hi Pete,

 

 

Generally speaking, the storage and handling of fuels does deplete octane during the logistics process. However the claimed octane by the major oil companies is always understated…. a 98 RON octane is usually 99 when you buy it from the pump. In my view there isn’t too much to be concerned about, other than follow good handling and storage processes.

 

 

If you blend in Avgas you do get a slow down in octane depletion on Mogas as Avgas has a much lower volatile product (iso-octane) as its base hydrocarbon chemical make up… additionally you will get an expediential octane bump as the lead in the avgas will react with the Mogas to increase octane.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Personally I like this method!:thumb_up:

 

 

 

[Guest hatrack]

On my gyro, I hang a 20 litre jerry off my mast and siphon. Takes a minute and a half while I go over my machine. Not effected by wind, and no spillage.

 

 

[pete duncan]

Veverjg , thanks for the ulp / avgas info. Its good to have access to so much info through these forums ,I am glad to think that we never stop learning. The next question is..... if, say 10% avgas were to be used with premium ulp in a rotax 912 engine , would the extra lead cause the same type of buildup ( though more slowly ) as running straight avgas.

 

 

[Vev]

Hi Pete,

 

Basically the ULP will act as a diluent and retard the tempo of the lead depositations … additionally, the combustion chamber will also benefit from the detergent additives in the ULP and help slow the build up but it won’t stop it, although you will see slightly lower concentrations over all.

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

Jack