Ultralights Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 just a small gripe, not about anyone here, (i hope not anyway) the days flight was going well, 5 miles west of Hoxton, i called inbound for runway 16, Hoxton park prefered runway is 34, away from houses, anyway, on departure the wind was 15 kts from the south east, giving 16 a quartering headwind from the left.. anyway, entered overhead/crosswind for 16, no other calls from other traffic, descended to circuit height, then called base for 16, only to hear a Cassna with a thick accent call base for 34 for a touch and go....:;)2: as i was on base for 16 i could see both windsocks clearly, as i guess he should have but didn't, and the windsock was past 45deg and gusting to level, from the south east!!! obviously the cessna pilot was oblivious to me (assume he was) or just blind and deaf,:clown: i decided to make the base for 16 the crosswind for 34 to follow the cessna doing touch and goes. circuit was uneventful, but a 5 kt tail wind in a jabiru makes for quite a long float and use of a lot of runway!:confused: i made all the usual calls and didnt hear the other aircraft at all on the radio he completed another circuit and touch and go with a strong tail wind, that made for an interesting landing as we taxied past! how he didnt remove the front nose wheel by using it to land on instead of mains ill never know... after that pucker factor landing he departed direct back to bankstown, again with no thurther radio calls.... makes me wonder, just how do some of these people pass their licence testes????:yuk: 2 more aircraft entered the pattern and immediately used runway 16 on seeing the socks during their overfly...;) im done.... back to dreaming of Vampires and the fun to come!!:;)7:
Ben Longden Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Er.. wasnt a chinese student from Moorabin perhaps? Ive nearly been run over IN the circuit by these jokers... and yes, CASA did end up speaking to the school and politely suggested their students have a radio, a brain and eyes - and switch all three ON before getting in the plane. Ben
Ultralights Posted January 14, 2007 Author Posted January 14, 2007 nahh this was an Indian accent.. i am assuming he was solo, as an instructor might (should) have noticed the sock and corrected the student, i guess he was sent over the Hoxton to get up some crosswind practice, which im all for, i have seen some pilots refuse to fly in just a steady 5 kt crosswind! but i think the second nosewheel and wing drop landing scared him too much to continue and he departed straight for bankstown, not even using the entry points at Prospect or 2RN. he got to about 500ft, and turned right, direct to YSBK, lucky no one else was base for 16 at that time!
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 You see some interesting stuff that's for certain. I also hear a heck of alot of interesting stuff listening to the scanner everyday. Pilots with minimal English getting lost, not being able to follow headings, penetrating military airspace... the list goes on. Agreed that it's quite bad really when most of us are up there doing the right thing. I see GA aircraft often at The Oaks not making any sort of call and flying directly over at our circuit height which is not really smart to be quite honest. A little airmanship and plain courtesy would not go astray.
Yenn Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Airmanship! What's that? Hardly a flying day goes by without some lack of airmanship being displayed, and I dare say most of us are guilty to some degree. I have committed some bloopers but none serious so far, my main problem is incorrect radio procedures but I don't think I ever hear correct procedures in a CTAF or CTAFr. GA pilots seem to be very lax in the circuit at a bush strip, the main problems beeing doing a beat up against the correct direction so they appear to be going fast and neglecting radio calls . Their resoning is that if it is not mandatory for non radio equipped aircraft to call then they don't need to either. Ian Borg
Ben Longden Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 That is so true. An example; I was about to depart Shepparton on a solo flight, and 18 was the active, and had been fairly busy in the preceeding hour. As I was taxiing, I saw a moving red dot above the tree line to the south.. and it was a red chipmunk on finals for 36. No radio calls, nothing. Now, after I did my flight, I had no option but to park in front of the club rooms, as our Chipmunk friend had parked - sort of - in front of the fuel bowser blocking all access on the taxi way to 18, which meant ALL departing traffic had a 500m backtrack to make. I did poke my head in the Chippy... and yes, it was fitted with a radio. So whatever happened to Aviate, navigate and COMMUNICATE? Ben
Admin Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 36 was the active, As I was taxiing, I saw a moving red dot above the tree line to the south.. and it was a red chipmunk on finals for 18. :confused:
BigPete Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Here's what happened to me........ Went out last night to do some bump and grind (touch and go's) Broadcast my intentions and taxied to runway 17. A crop duster who had been refilling followed me. He also gave the taxi call. Did my checks and radio call, entered runway and took off for my first circuit. The crop duster took off and headed south at low level. Got into the groove as they say and made some fairly decent landings and take offs - there was no other traffic, but I did as the book says and did the radio calls - ...turning downwind....turning base....turning final....you get the picture. SO at about the seventh touch and go I'm in the middle of the runway, flaps up to take off position, speed about 40 knots and about to hit the throttle when I hear, "......SHORT FINAL runway 35!!!!" I looked hard straight in front of me and there he was, about 300 feet off the deck and getting bigger, and bigger, coming straight for ME!! I must confess my radio call to the incoming aircraft was not by the book - there wasn'y enought time to use call signs and such - I simply said "incoming aircraft I'm about to lift off from runway 17" Much to his credit, he immediatly turned hard left (my right) and said he would orbit while I got out off the way. His orbit looked so tight that as soon as I was up about 300 feet I turned 45 degrees to my left. He then landed and refilled - while I headed north to settle down before doing another approach. The funny thing is - it was a valuable lesson - I didn't panic and I had all ready worked out plan B (If the landng airplane did keep coming) as I made the radio call. I was quite pleased with my reaction to the situation. regards
Guest bateo Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I am not sure if Hoxton has landing fee's, and if so, how much they are... BUT so many GA pilots these days don't give a radio call to be 'el cheapo' and escape landing fees... As a result they are putting themselves and other pilots at risk.. I have had this happen to me several times this past year, it seems to be getting worse with some pilots calling "Orange Cessna on downwind'' or ''aircraft in CTAF on downwind'', or no radio call at all!!! I have even been a passenger of many older pilots doing this, who only clock around 5-10 hours a year, who have the idea of they dont need to make a call, 'pilots should keep a lookout anyway'... I know that many students do not call when they are on their solo's to minimise their cost. I am not sure if this explains the situations discussed as above, but it surely is an issue regarding the same matter. Airmanship to make radio calls?? I think its just common sense if you ask me, but then again, its not all too common these days by the sounds of things..
Ben Longden Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Gidday Pete, I thought I heard the sound of a radial last evening... The big question is.. did the other pilot learn a lesson? Ben
Guest pecram air Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Similar thing happened to me on downwind at Bathurst (Left hand circuit on 35). I was with an instructor who was giving me type endorsment for my new plane. Mid down wind looked up from my panel check to see a Tobago doing a right hand circuit, he was almost mid downwind. Lucky the instructor had seen him just before me and through us into a hard right turn. This guy also didnt make any radio calls. I guess we missed each other by 20 metre or so.
Ultralights Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 Unfortunatly Hoxton park has pretty high fees! its owned by Macquarie bank! but as for airmanship, he failed in 2 aspects, not just the radio calls, but on selecting to do circuits on a runway with a strong tailwind! it would be interesting to find the truth and see if the lack of calls is in direct result of higher airport fees!!
Guest bateo Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I am not sure that would be the case with Pecram air's experience, as there are no landing fee's at Bathurst.. It seems to be worse around the aerodromes with higher landing fee's though. On my recent NAV 2 of 6 GA aircraft did not make a radio call to inform me they were entering and backtracking OR joining circuit. I took note after I had noticed the situation getting worse.
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Half of Sydney is owned by Macquarie Bank!!
bushpilot Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I am not sure that would be the case with Pecram air's experience, as there are no landing fee's at Bathurst....... Hi Sam, Any idea why an active airport like Bathurst has no landing fees, yet Mudgee does..? Is it simply determined by the owners - whether they be Council or corporation or private? Cheers Chris
Guest brentc Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I wonder how many people haven't made radio calls at Tyabb recently. It changed from 126.7 to 128.0 recently! It's easy for anyone to accidentally use the wrong frequency and I'm sure thay many of us have at one stage or another, so you always need to treat the field like a CTAF and assume that other aircraft don't have radios. See and be seen.
Guest danda Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I believe that there are mistakes and there is a blatant disregard for the rules that could endanger the lives of other people in the air and on the airfield and it is those blatant disregard for the rules and for that matter other peoples lives that I believe must be reported. There would be any one of us that hasn't made a mistake and if told about it in a proper manner wouldn't admit our mistake and work on correcting our error however having said that I have come across several people only last year who for some reason couldn't care less about others and that worries me. I did report these incidences and received no responce to my letter and there is one person in particular who still goes about doing the same thing over and over again, I believe there people must be brought into account for the actions before they kill someone or ever themself. Don
Guest bateo Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Hi Sam,Any idea why an active airport like Bathurst has no landing fees, yet Mudgee does..? Is it simply determined by the owners - whether they be Council or corporation or private? Cheers Chris G'day Chris, Unfortunately the Council at Mudgee does not listen to the users of the aerodrome.. They havent for some past 12 years. (since the runway has been resealed) and now, the runway is in need of desperate attention and they cannot afford to reseal it. So I am not sure where the fee's are funded to? If only Council (at any regional airport) listened and took one look at Bathurst's economy from the airport, they would see how much they are actually gaining. Also as a result,GA Pilots refuse to make a standard radio call.. Which the council is gaining bugger all from when this happens!!
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 I myself had a problem with not hearing a certain pilot make radio calls To overcome this I ask other aircraft in the circuit for a radio check or I often do it on Sydney Radar 124.55 and say "Sydney Radar, this is Jabiru xxx for a radio check". They will then let you know I then say "Jabiru xxx thank you Sir/Mam". Just a little hint. I am sure that others do it but I am sure alot do not. I just want to make sure my radio works.
Guest bateo Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 I often do that myself on Nav exercises... Just to make sure your being heard and seen.
Yenn Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Much to his credit, he immediatly turned hard left (my right) and said he would orbit while I got out off the way. His orbit looked so tight that as soon as I was up about 300 feet I turned 45 degrees to my left. What credit is there in turning hard left. that is a reipr for disaster as a right turn is the correct avouding procedure. The incorrect frequency is a very common one and at Rodds Bay where I fly we are 15 miles from Gladstone which is on a different frequency which I monitor if I am within their area. For safety I should monitor both but that is not practical. I have given my inbound call on the wrong frequency, but luckily nobody has heard and berated me or they are diplomatic. ian borg
PaulN Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 You know, politely advising other pilots in nearby airspace of a correct frequency or procedure should only be seen as a courtesy aimed at safety. A couple of days ago I was sharing the local sky with a sqdn of fire bombers who had just departed YCOM for Jindabyne. Even skilled veteran flyers can slip up with frequency switching from time to time. I heard them call on the YCOM numbers their inbound call for Jindy so to avoid embarassment for them I simply clicked in to let them know they were still on 118.1 switch to 126.7 for the Jindy area. Their response was thankful. I've had others (incl ATC) give me the same courtesy on more than one occasion. Paul
BigPete Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Yenn - well done - your quite right he should have turned right. However I believe he turned left because as he was coming in downwind it put him on the dead side of the runway 17 circuit. Landing on 35 would save him 7 to 8 minutes of time but could have cost us our lives.
Ben Longden Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 While we hear, so to speak, about the nongs who for some reason known only to themselves disregard the radio, lets put in a good word for those who do.. and practice good airmanship. This morning I was having a check ride prior to a few solo circuits at Shepp, and as instructed, I followed the best practice of a taxi call, entering & backtracking call - and then heard MWZ, a King Air operated by the Ambulance Service give a 20 mile inbound (at 10,000 ft IFR) and then as I was on climb out, the pilot asked me, by personal callsign - Tecnam 4673 - as to my location in the circuit. Top marks for airmanship, especially considering his very quick turnaround... the turbines had barely spooled down before he was off again. Ben
Guest ozzie Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 www.apf.asn.au Download the saftey poster at above site Another area to be wise with the radio. Worth looking at. nice photo of the Porter
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