How do you learn?

[shags_j]

Hi All,

 

I've never really had anything to do with building stuff (my entire family are accountants. Guess how fun family functions are;) ). I want a kit to work on over the next 5-10 years as a project for fun. Question is how do I know if I am capable or not? I don't even know what's involved.

 

Are there any clubs or anything where I can watch someone build occasionally and see what's involved?

 

Cheers,

 

Shags

 

 

[facthunter]

how?

 

That certainly is a fair question if I ever heard one. I would start by getting all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are Sportplane Construction techniques.

 

The Sportplane Builder.

 

Firewall Forward.

 

Tony Bingelis on Engines.

 

There is also an invaluable copy of Approved methods of construction and maintenance ( I may not have the title right) available from the RAAus for about 38 dollars.

 

Then get in with a group of people DOING something, THIS is the hard part Nev

 

 

[shags_j]

That last part is the tricky bit.

 

Thanks for the book ideas Nev. Will check them out.

 

Cheers,

 

Shags

 

 

[icebob]

Hi Shags_j,

 

must agree with facehunter here, one of my work mates with no construction knowlage wanted to build a wood and fabric aircraft. Before he started he went to TAFE and built a small wooden boat there, gave him so many of the skills needed, he then offered a local LAME a slab of beer to let him help with the LAME's next fabric repair, again learnt so much from that, his aircraft ended up looking so good.

 

Bob.

 

 

[Spin]

Shags, this may not directly address your wanting a kit to tinker with over the next 5+ yrs, however I have been reading a bit about building clubs that are springing up, particularly for building RV12s, which are said to be the bees whatsits as far as complete and straightforward kits go.

 

The idea is 10-12 people form a group, decide how, where, how well equipped etc up front, deposit their money, sort out a workshop, then start building. No monkeying around with different powerplants, instruments etc, it is built exactly as Mr Vans says. As much as possible is decided up front, eg what happens if someone is transferred/gets divorced and wants to leave the group.

 

One particular group I have been following has an experienced builder (3 RVs under his belt) as the instigator and they have actively encouraged people who may never have tackled the whole job alone, to become involved. Time commitment is 10 hours a month (say one weekend?), tasks have been allocated according to aptitude and interest and they encourage people to work in 2-3 man teams, together on site at once. More social and less chance of a fubar situation creeping in they say. Apparently on that basis, completion within a year is readily achievable.

 

I am sure there are all sorts of potential pitfalls, but in a situation where the acknowleged leader has a good idea of the overall picture and you have been a little selective up front with the members, it could be a valuable learning experience. I'm told that the experience has been that in many groups, some people tend to want to put in more time out of interest or wanting to learn new skills. I understand some members tend to sell up their shares after completion and go on to build their own, whereas the majority operate the plane as a well organised flying group.

 

Worth a thought?

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Hi Shags before our gazelle was damaged at the International Airshow John had not long before that taken our plane offline from a flying school (GA). There was a bit of damage done to it that was just masked over as a repair. We wanted to get it back up to scratch & to a standard we wanted the plane to be. The engine we were able to move just by putting our hands underneath it & it moved reasonably freely. So thought this was as good a place as any to strart,we asked a few questions & found a place to get what we needed & have worked from there. The fabric needed to be replaced after the International Airshow so got a book on fabrication read it & did that. You learn as you go along the fun part is the learning & the knowledge you gain from it. John also included myself & a friend in the rebuild I found it also helped us have a common interest & I knew what they were talking about. We also helped out with the building of the Wallaby at Temora. John & Rod helped with the plane & I did the cleaning up. Cheers Sue

 

 

[shags_j]

Thanks for the comments guys. Will check out that link blackrod.

 

I think I am like your former boss. I have always wanted to fix up a car but never had someone to show me how. I build rc stuff of all types and absolutely love it. Just really wanted to watch someone in the flesh to make sure it is what I wanted to do before I went out and started to revive or create something.

 

 

[MrH]

Sorry off subject i_dunno

 

:wave:Mr & Mrs Wigg, you should write an artical for the RAA mag.

 

The trials & tribulations from disaster to flying again... reckon it would be very interesting to

 

hear the dissapointments through to the learning involved in the rebuild. and everthing in between.

 

Just a thought

 

Cheers

 

H

 

 

[Admin]

That certainly is a fair question if I ever heard one. I would start by getting all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are Sportplane Construction techniques.The Sportplane Builder.

Firewall Forward.

 

Tony Bingelis on Engines.

 

There is also an invaluable copy of Approved methods of construction and maintenance ( I may not have the title right) available from the RAAus for about 38 dollars.

 

Then get in with a group of people DOING something, THIS is the hard part Nev

These books are available in the shop

 

 

[shags_j]

Plug plug ;) ;)

 

Was looking at them last night. Will pick some up next pay day Ian.

 

BTW, I was thinking last night, is it possible to buy a single component (that isn't going to break the bank) and have a go at assembling, say wheel assembly or something (just off the top of my head)?

 

 

[sain]

it might be worth getting in touch with the Zenith agents here in aus (ad in latest RA-Aus rag). The various zenith kits can be purchased as component kits, and its very common to start with an empennage (tail) kit and build that first. That allows you to build a bit at a time, as funds allow etc. Or to not fork out too much and then find your build skills arn't up to it.

 

There are also a number of tutorial DVDs available for the Zenith range which will walk you through the build and provide lots of hints and tips.

 

 

[shags_j]

That's awesome. $375 (US?) for the starter kit, rudder assembly, instructions etc. Might be a good start.

 

 

[shags_j]

Out of interest are there any other kit manufacturers that have buy as you go kits? Zenith do but are there others?

 

Also without starting a huge thread on it, are the wings still falling off ;) ?

 

 

[icebob]

Hi Shags,

 

I think the Titan tornado's do too.

 

Austrlain agent is in northern NSW, but do not have his email address sorry.

 

Bob.

 

 

[facthunter]

alternative.

 

Bill Whitney has a Vid. about aircraft design, with accompanying notes. Helps you to work out whether a design is done properly STRUCTURALLY or alternatively to design one yourself. I highly recommend this. He does not make it complicated but covers the subject very well. ....Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

You could get in touch with Sport Aircraft Assn of Australia, They have several builders in your area.

 

 

[facthunter]

SAAA. We are the Builders of...

 

True Ian. I joined a couple of years ago and their emphasis is on BUILDING. Should have done it long ago. I thought that I would find more builders in RAAus. There are plenty of events on down here too, (VIC). The SAAA has chapters that are semi-autonomous (area based) Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Lucky you. I have asked on the SAAA web site if there are any others building in my area. Deathly hush. Having been on this site for quite a while, I was expecting something similar from SAAA, but they must all be head down building.

 

 

[sain]

It was a couple of models in the 601 and 650 range (xl?) that had the issues,not the 701. The zenith guys put out some fixes that address the problem area in the wing.

 

The 701 has a different wing.

 

 

[shags_j]

My problem with it is, if you are looking at the manual and it refers to score section f or somethign else with funny wording your average Joe might not understand. How do you learn those bits.

 

 

[Vorticity]

Sonex do component kits.

 

There are videos available from some guys in Canada, homebuilt help mtal building 101 etc. The have a complete series for the building of the entire CH701. These would really help. The first thing to do is maybe to see if you can watch them all and stay awake! They have a great video for the rudder. Combined with the rudder starter kit from zenith and you could get a good taste.

 

Most techniques used are covered in books, websites and videos. EAA gave a brilliant set of online videos. I had not used a simple dimple die until this week. I got online, watched an EAA video, read some other builders websites and the practiced on scrap until I was happy.

 

Building any aircraft is a serious undertaking, make sure you enter into it with eyes open. Maybe gi and look at some peoples projects? I'm in Brisbane if you want to see a sonex under construction.

 

 

[sain]

I'd forgotten about the sonex. It was one of the first kit planes than I came across when I was thinking of learning to fly. The build description of the sonex on the RA-Aus site (Jarvis Sonex 1) turned me on to the whole concept.

 

It doesn't quite fit the flying I want to do though, so I'd discarded it fairly early. Very nice aircraft though, and the design team at Sonex appears to be doing very good work.

 

Shags have you thought about what sort of flying you want to do with your plane?

 

 

[shags_j]

I guess it will mostly be trips away.

 

 

[Tomo]

The "Highlander" Just aircraft - you can buy in bits, and build as you go...

 

They are a beaut aircraft, the more I look the more I like - I have an inkling I could be going this way in the future.

 

Ps. Latest Pacific flyer magazine has an article on them.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

There was a program on Foxtel recently where an English bloke built a Europa from a kit over a few weeks. It was called "A Plane is Born". Not only did he build the plane but he also picked up a PPL as well so he could fly the plane he built. Might be available on the net or on DVD. Gives you an idea of what it takes (if you have the level of support he would have had available).

Its certainly available on DVD A Plane Is Born - Kit [DVD]: Amazon.co.uk: A Plane Is Born: DVD

 

There was some controversy that the Europa used in the flying sequences apparently wasn't the one he built

 

Cheers

 

John