RAAus Again .....

[Guest Wigg]

I had cause to yet ring RAA a further 3 times due to another matter (paid my registration also) I have not received any notification at all for the registration this turned out was a glitch in the spreadsheet it deleted me every second month so hence no notifactions were sent out to me & also solved the other problem of my rec flying magazine not being sent. Hopefully it will all be sorted out by July when I am (unexplainably) due not to receive my magazine again. Sue

 

 

[turboplanner]

I notice a number of people have simplified the present situation, which should be of concern to members paying a substantial fee (by comparison with many other organizations), by picking on the messenger, Cloudsuck.

 

But what happens to efficiency and cost when 8000 pilots have to phone up RAA a few days before their licence expiry to find out where it is. Better to fix the admin problem in the first place.

 

 

[monty]

I notice a number of people have simplified the present situation, which should be of concern to members paying a substantial fee (by comparison with many other organizations), by picking on the messenger, Cloudsuck.But what happens to efficiency and cost when 8000 pilots have to phone up RAA a few days before their licence expiry to find out where it is. Better to fix the admin problem in the first place.

Hi Turbo,

I don't really think that anyone was picking on cloudsuck Directly just his comments as to who's fault it is if your licence expires because he did not receive a renewal. And I can't understand why 8000 pilots would phone RAA to see where the renewal is. You don't need a renewal to pay your licence. My wife paid mine with BPay and used my licence no and name for a reference and my new licence came in the mail.

 

A friend of mine sent in a cheque two weeks before it was due and his licence came in the mail. it isn't rocket science Just pay it before the expiry date.

 

You can also ring and give credit card details over the phone.

 

If I personally have given the impression that I was picking on Cloudsusk then I do apologize that was not my intention. I was just commenting and giving my opinion on comments posted on a public forum.

 

Monty

 

 

[Yenn]

So what is this substantial fee by comparison with which others.

 

The way I see it, RAAus looks after the running of our flying and gets a handout from the Government to do so, because it saves CASA money. We pay fees for membership and also for registrationof our planes. We do get some insurance cover in our registration fees, so it is not all a debit. There must be substantial costs involved in running the organisation and that is where I see our money going. I don't know of any other organisation running recreational flying on the scale of RAAus, don't think the HGFA comes near. Not sure abot the gliding fraternity, but it wasn't cheap when I was involved about 38 years ago.

 

The way I see it, if you have a gripe with RAAus, talk to them. If you don't get satisfaction, stand at the next elections and state why you are standing and what you will do to improve the organisation. Personally I like to fly and build aeroplanes and leave the organisation to others, and what is so expensive about what we get. You could spend a lot more playing golf or even fishing.

 

 

[Jabby]

Hi:hittinghead: Storchy Neil, I like your style my old mate, You tell "em.Talk to you soon Mike (Jabby)

 

 

[long tall texan]

It's our responsibility to ensure that our licence is current as well as aircraft regos etc.

 

Same goes with ERSA's and charts. Who do you expect to tell you when these need replacing? WE are responsible for ourselves as individuals, no-one else. Period.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Guys, can we move on.If you notice cloudsuck avatar is now coming up as a guest. I know the above was not intentionaly directed at him personaly, but it does come across that way IMO. I know cloudsuck personaly, he is switched on, he has contributed to this site a great deal since i have been here. He has also given me great advice since i have known him.I hope that he will continue to have his say here.

 

 

[markendee]

Cutting and running is on a par with blaming and complaining.

 

At least we weren't all sued.

 

Mark D

 

 

[John Brandon]

It's our responsibility to ensure that our licence is current as well as aircraft regos etc.Same goes with ERSA's and charts. Who do you expect to tell you when these need replacing? WE are responsible for ourselves as individuals, no-one else. Period.

Exactly!

I suggest members of the association might check our constitution, particularly section 5 (iv) and 7 (iii)

 

5. Cessation of membership.

 

A person shall cease to be a member of the association if the person

 

(i) dies, or in the case of a body corporate, is wound up; or,

 

(ii) resigns from membership of the association; or,

 

(iii) is expelled from the association; or,

 

(iv) fails to renew membership of the association

 

7. Fee, subscriptions etc.

 

(i) The Subscription payable by any Member shall be such as the Board may from time to

 

time prescribe.

 

(ii) The Board may levy additional contributions from time to time as required for the conduct

 

of the Association's business.

 

(iii) The Association shall cause notice of the subscription expiry to be sent to all Members on

 

or before the last day of the month of expiry. If the renewal subscription remains unpaid

 

thirty days after expiry, the Member's rights as provided within these Rules shall be

 

suspended.

 

(iv) If the renewal subscription or any amount levied remains unpaid ninety days after the date

 

of expiry or imposition of the levy, the membership shall be terminated. The member shall

 

not be required to be notified of such termination.

 

And remember the constitution was established by people who wanted a thriving association and, to that end, expected that all persons who joined would be active participants in that association. No one expected that any members would have to be spoon-fed.

 

John Brandon

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks John

 

 

[Yenn]

I notice that it is "subscription expiry" that must be advised. Can that be read to mean that our membership fees must be advised when due, or could it also inply that the registration fee for an aircraft must be advised. Would a lawyer be able to wriggle out of responsibility for nor sending out rego due notices?

 

 

[Admin]

Guys, can we move on.If you notice cloudsuck avatar is now coming up as a guest. I know the above was not intentionaly directed at him personaly, but it does come across that way IMO. I know cloudsuck personaly, he is switched on, he has contributed to this site a great deal since i have been here. He has also given me great advice since i have known him.I hope that he will continue to have his say here.

Cloudsuck requested his site membership be deleted

 

 

[turboplanner]

This post may be helpful to others about to suffer the same fate.

He did point out the letter had been written AFTER the expiry date.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I'm sorry to see Cloudsuck go also, or anyone else for that matter who has positivly contributed to this site. However a forum like this one is a GIVE and TAKE type thing. Cloudsuck gave, and we all gave back...including Ians' imput re: the RAAus rules as they are written.

 

It's unfortunate but if Cloudsuck can't handle the GIVE and TAKE, or the actual facts as written, and wishes not to play in our sandbox anymore, than so be it, it may be time for him to move on. We all occasionally take a beating on this forum from time to time, and we move on. You can't please everybody all of the time........................................................................................Maj..

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

As I wrote in an earlier part of this thread my membership was due the same day as cloudstruck's & I to did not recieve any notification of either 1st or nd. It turned out that due to some unknown reason RA Aust, mailing spreadsheet had cancelled me out every 2nd month which also took me off the reminder notiffication for membership also. Seems strange we were both due on the 11th May. Sue

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi David,I will have a chat with him when i see him next. But as Ian has mentioned, he has left on his own accord. Maybe when things cool down a bit, he will come back. or maybe not.Cheers

 

 

[Al B]

I just want to add that although I don't know cloudsuck from a bar of soap, I will miss his commentry here.

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Wow! so many coments about a renewal!

 

All a storm in a teacup me thinks ! We in RAA like to be self governing ie: be responsible for our own actions. We all take our passion seriously and because of that we as individuals should know when "this or that " is due ( same goes for maintenance ) . It is after all our passion. Sure RAA will give us help / advice and reminders etc but the buck stops with us.... . And that's a good thing .

 

Long may it last.

 

safe flying

 

Walter

 

 

[farri]

Yes but, This is OUR organisation fully funded by US and we are the clients. I could have potentially lost my plane, my house, everything over this. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I agree,The fact that members are expecting a reminder, can, in itself, cause people to forget due dates,though we are responsible for remaining current,they are required to to issue reminders,therefore,they should be sent at the correct time.

 

A very interesting issue of liability and duty of care,had the unthinkable occured.

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

"interesting" really wouldn't be the word if we were all forking out for a failure of Duty of Care

 

 

[farri]

Couldn`t think of a better one and I thought I`d be a bit diplomatic for a change.;)

 

Frank.

 

 

[tangocharlie123]

Paperwork Required

 

When the RAA send out renewals do they also send out a medical declaration form and a form that gathers other information that goes towards compliance.

 

So to those that just paid it and got their certificates in the mail do you not have a duty of care aswell and have you complied with the associations regs.

 

just my thoughts.

 

So doesn't the RAA have the duty to send the renewal in a timely manner.

 

 

[farri]

Re Paper Work Required.

 

Two weeks ago,I renewed my pilot certificateand and with the reminder,(reveived very early), was a declaration to be signed by me,confirming that my health was of the required standard,however,RAA also require the number of hours flown in the last 12 months, but no form for hours was included,( Second year in a row),I simply wrote the hours onto the form with my details and sent it back,this was acceptable as I received my new certificate.

 

The Questions.

 

Is RAA required,by law,to issue reminder notices?

 

If notice is late due to RAA dispatching late and beyond expiry date,who holds duty of care and becomes responsible for liability?

 

Of course the reminder notice should be sent early,as I said before,the fact that a reminder notice is expected, can cause one to forget due date.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Cosmick]

Well, made me go and look and renewal is due in August, will keep an eye out for the reminder. Only recently went through the process of paying the rego on the Aircraft.

 

In this day and age an automated email delivery system is not difficult, may require some software upgrdes but in my view would be money well spent. Necessary forms could automatically be attached. For those still in the dark ages (obviously no-one on this forum as all will have emails) a report can be generated to mail manually. This should solve the problem of late notices (as long as the Computers/servers don't crash but then again appropriate backups etc).

 

The savings of #members x postage for rego's and licence renewals would be significant.

 

 

[turboplanner]

"and with the reminder,(received very early), was a declaration to be signed by me,confirming that my health was of the required standard.

Interesting point. A number of people reported they didn't wait for a renewal, just sent a cheque, paid by Bpay etc. but none of them mentioned how they filled out a form they didn't have, or predicted what would be on it for the particular year. Without this, you don't comply with the requirements for a licence.

 

"Is RAA required,by law,to issue reminder notices?"[/Quote]I've never seen any Act which requires this, but as John Brandon points out in his earlier post, Section 7 (iii) of the RA Aus Constitution requires it to issue such notices, then omitting to do so leaves us open to a Duty of Care suit.

 

"If notice is late due to RAA dispatching late and beyond expiry date,who holds duty of care and becomes responsible for liability?[/Quote]I believe RA Aus would be a co-defendant.

 

A similar case in Speedway operations occurred when a Club organised a "Family Night" and a child sitting on her father's shoulders was badly injured. The father sued the club on the grounds that they had a duty of care to ensure the spectator area was safe. The Club said everyone knew motor racing was dangerous and they entered at their own risk. Thae case came down to the fact that they had forgotten to put this warning on their programme, so we lost.