Gyro Reviews

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Hi All,

 

It would be great if some of our resident gyro enthusiasts, could write some reviews of the more popular makes in the 'aircraft' section. It would surely help out newbies like myself!

 

Cheers, HH.:thumb_up:

 

 

[Quick]

HH,

 

Ive flown in ELA's, RAF 2000's and watched some nice lil homebuilts fly around and if you want a nice basic single seater tahts a proven machine, go and have a look at a Ross Symes Machine. Very nice and basic. And they are the mainstay of the mustering communitee.

 

 

[bones]

HH, Ive flown in ELA's, RAF 2000's and watched some nice lil homebuilts fly around and if you want a nice basic single seater tahts a proven machine, go and have a look at a Ross Symes Machine. Very nice and basic. And they are the mainstay of the mustering communitee.

Both HTL machines in their stock designs. But yes just as easy to build it "right" instead of "not so right".

I have a machine nearly finished in the shed now,(damn that will mean i got 3 now) once i get it out, i will post some pics, it has a 914 rotax, and be very close to CLT, just need to be careful in the design before you start cutting allu.

 

HH, i will try and get around to writing a bit of a blurb soon, need to get down and get my other new 2 place soon, flying it back from near Sydney i think, up through the centre there some where, so i bit busy, but will get around to it

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Thanks for the replys, what is your other two place Bones?

 

 

[bones]

Be the same as this but a fraction different colour, new one is silver , loved the red but damn too hot for up here if its sitting on the ground for anylonger than 3 mins, sold it to down mid NSW, so gone for a cooler colour this time.

 

Actually i found a pic of the near exact colour mine will be this is one of the last i delievered. Now this is a nice colour, and how assy is this that i got the strobe on too

 

 

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I do like the silver!:thumb_up:

 

 

[HunterJ]

Hi Howie

 

Have a look at this one too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

That is a nice looking machine Hunter, in fact it is a lot sleeker looking than the Xenon, but will I lose half my prop if I make a mistake?

 

PS: Just did a Google search, do I get a trial flight?

 

 

[HunterJ]

The first one is due into the country late August so any time after that for your trial flight. Clearances are such that your prop is safe.

 

Cheers

 

HJ

 

 

[fly_tornado]

they do have a certain sort of attraction if you like open cockpit flying.

 

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

same sort of open as the really basic trikes..... BY the way what does CLT mean? is that one of those TLA's that really means beyond this lies only pain and greif?

 

So in the more sleek versions what sort of effective cruise speed can you get, do they become a serious contendor for long X country? I seem to recall reading that they could be quite hard on your butt for long distance stuff.... there was an article some years ago about a guy out near keepit damn at Tamworth who had a group of 3 or 4 circumnavigate Australia...

 

Must admit I'd like to have a go but that whole discusion around PIO and the effects sort of scared me a bit... plus no one around that I could bludge a ride off

 

Andy

 

 

[pudestcon]

they do have a certain sort of attraction if you like open cockpit flying.

MAN, that's awesome

 

 

[HunterJ]

Hi Andy

 

Give me a call and I can go through it for you. The Calidus is a 90kt machine with 75lts and has a 3 1/2 hour endurance with a conservative reserve and definitely a solid xcountry machine.

 

We flew from Manila to Gatton and back last weekend for their annual flyin and had no problems with our butts - the seats are padded you know!

 

Gyro design has in the past few years has taken great strides forward and the 'new generation' gyro certaimly has significant advantages over the more traditional designs as pictured. By the way, this is an awsome pic.

 

Cheers

 

Hunter Jones

 

0412 048 679

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the arrow copter looks good

 

 

 

[sleemanj]

same sort of open as the really basic trikes..... BY the way what does CLT mean?

Center Thrust Line (or Center Line Thrust, as you prefer). Thrust is central to the center of gravity, or as close to as possible.

 

HTL (High Thrust Line) gyros typically have problems with PPO (Power Push Over, aka, Bunt Over, or more simply, tumbling) in that the thrust vector is above the center of gravity and the rotor lift+drag vector is directed slightly rearwards in the gyro if that lift suddenly falls away (negative G typically, really strong gust maybe) then all of a sudden the thrust can tumble you over upside down, this as you can imagine has about a 99% probability in not ending well. The solution is a massive horizontal stabiliser, or a smaller horiz stab smack bang behind the prop, etc. Search for the RAF 2000 if you want to read about HTL issues and solutions that have been devised.

 

LTL (Low Thrust Line) is far safer in this regard (PPO just isn't realistically going to happen), but the disadvantage is getting that LTL means the cockpit needs to be way up high, with requisite weird looking machines.

 

CTL is roughly the best of both worlds.

 

/Not a gyro pilot, but I don't think I've put you wrong with the above, I'm sure somebody will correct me if I have.

 

 

[RotorEagle]

sleemanj,

 

Have been away from gyro scene for awhile but believe that some of your comment/explanation to be a bit misleading.

 

HTL (High Thrust Line) gyros typically have problems with PPO (Power Push Over, aka, Bunt Over, or more simply, tumbling) ...... if that lift suddenly falls away (negative G typically, really strong gust maybe) then all of a sudden the thrust can tumble you over upside down, this as you can imagine has about a 99% probability in not ending well........

LTL (Low Thrust Line) is far safer in this regard (PPO just isn't realistically going to happen), but the disadvantage is getting that LTL means the cockpit needs to be way up high, with requisite weird looking machines.

 

As I understood negative G in a gyro of ANY configuration can have fatal consequences not just on HTL gyros. A strong gust of wind may have more of an effect on HTL machines than other configs.

 

As I said I have been out of the scene for a while and the thrust line debate was in its very early stages when I was still involved and this will be my first input into any part of the debate. I do not disagree with the view that HTL gyros may be more inherently stable, however at this stage of my re-education I believe that every configuration has its trade offs and I Know that no aircraft ever flown is immune to pilot error and that C/LTL machines are still open to this vital part of the aviaiting experience.

 

I to would welcome any correction/input to my comments.

[RotorEagle]

sorry bout mixing my comments with sleemanj's quotes (this is also my first input to any forum)

 

 

[sleemanj]

Negative G in any gyro is not a good thing (can't fly with negative G), but in HTL it's much worse because of likely PPO the instant the rotor becomes unloaded.

 

In well designed LTL and CTL machines a momentary negative G should be recoverable, contrast a HTL (absent things like a massive horizontal stab) even a momentary negative G is going to send you upside down in probably under a second, at that point, it's all over rover.

 

 

[RotorEagle]

Negative G in any gyro is not a good thing (can't fly with negative G), but in HTL it's much worse because of likely PPO the instant the rotor becomes unloaded.In well designed LTL and CTL machines a momentary negative G should be recoverable, contrast a HTL (absent things like a massive horizontal stab) even a momentary negative G is going to send you upside down in probably under a second, at that point, it's all over rover.

I would not be so game as to suggest that momentary negative G is recoverable in any configuration of gyro, I dont know any gyro pilots that would or have tested this theory so it is only dangerous geusswork. My guess is that the difference between a bad negative G outcome after the onset in a CTL vs HTL situation would be fractions of a second.

 

To state that HTL machines "typically have problems with PPO" is a bit on the strong side. I may be a bit biased still in that I know that many thousands of hours have been flown been flown in HTL machines (not to long ago that was all there was) without every second machine bunting over when there is a bit of gusty weather about.

 

Any machine should be flown to the current weather conditions and it may be the advantage of a CTL machine that its safe manouvering speed would be higher than an comparable HTL machine in conditions where sudden wind gusts may occur.

 

I will not dispute the fact that a CLT machine may be a more stable situation but I would not say that they will be the cure all for accidents in gyros.

 

This is probably not the basis of this topic but I find this part to be a bit contentious.

 

 

[bones]

"To state that HTL machines "typically have problems with PPO" is a bit on the strong side."

 

I would say most of the smoking holes in the ground were made by HTL machines though, i have more hrs in HTL machines to know, and that is why i found out why my work load was so high i was glad to make the change clt OR at least machines with very good sized HS, even the(i cant put the name up, it starts with Z) is a HTL machine, but it has a HS the size of a dinner table, and is one of the most nibble, stable machines i even flown, and i got a few hrs in differnet machines.

 

 

[bones]

MAN, that's awesome

Holy crap with a round mast no thanks :peepwall: and that is a good angle but even better if you bank it back the other way straight away

 

 

[RotorEagle]

"I would say most of the smoking holes in the ground were made by HTL machines"

 

Unfortunately Bones these "smokin holes" usually involved the loss of someones life. I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as insensitive as I took it:wink:, having personally know gyro pilots who have lost their life- ( I think you would also as the gyro community is fairly small.)

 

Have seen a lot of your activity on the asra forum and you appear to be a well informed and level headed member

 

of the gyro scene and I look forward to meeting you at some stage. As I said in a previous post on this topic, I have been out of the scene for quite a while and are using these forums as part of my re-education and find the thrust line debate to be very interesting. I consider my early gyro learning to have been 1st class being fortunate to have been around some of the masters( in my opinion) twenty odd years ago and to have seen the beginning of powered two seat training close up.

 

As said I am looking forward to meeting you (and others) at some stage and catching up with some old mates and once again enjoying the pleasure of flying these wonderful machines.

 

Simon McClure.

 

 

[bones]

I thought it might have been you Simon.

 

I wasnt saying that HTL were the only cause of Smoking holes either.

 

It seems that lately the RAF's have had more than their fair of smoking holes, and the fact that most of them are about 18" HTL is nothing surprising really.

 

The old Air command , were also HTL and after getting into(in hind sight) a PIO, and shoving the throttle shut, cause i didnt like the feel of what had started, its not hard to imagine, how easy it would be to leave it go for another couple of secs, and i would have been a smoking hole hole too.

 

This machine only had 65hp, easy to see how something with 180hp can get into trouble real easy

 

 

[Guest SamL]

Hi All

 

Here are a few videos of the Australian made GT Gyroplanes KRUZA. Todays gyroplanes are one of the safest types of flying machines available.

 

Enjoy.

 

Regards SamL.............

 

 

 

[goflying]

About time you came to this forum Sam, good to see you here.

 

Frank