June 3: What now for Sydney RA?

[Chrism]

Well, within 18 months both public options for RA flying and training in Sydney have, or very soon will have closed (Hoxton closed and ripped up, Camden becoming Class D for virtually all daylight hours).

 

Assuming I have understood all the regs correctly, what options are there? Does anyone know how the schools at CN and BK, who use CN for solos, are going to do?.

 

Thanks, Chris

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I know a school at CN are applying for a 'permit' to operate RAA in the cta zone. Having a previously established business etc may add weight to the argument.

 

They have applied for this in the past and it got refeered to the controllers themselv's for opinion. After that, it was declined. Read into that what you will.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Sound like an opportunity for the school to buy a bunch of Jabs or the like and have only one of them registered VH. You can see where this is going...

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I can't help but put this and the CASA CEO's earlier comment of putting RAAus 'back in the weeds' together.

 

 

[horsefeathers]

I can't help but put this and the CASA CEO's earlier comment of putting RAAus 'back in the weeds' together.

Hey Oz

 

can you post (or pm) the casa ceo's comments please? ONly being new to this, havent seen a lot of stuff, including that.

 

 

[wags]

Sunshine Coast Aero Club has obtained OK.

 

Understand after making an application to CASA the Sunshine Coast Aero Club has received approval to operate RAAus training out of what used to be called "Maroochydore Airport". Haven't any details on what the restrictions (if any) are however, but a quick phone call will answer any queries.

 

As of 3rd June this airport is having an "expensive" name change and becoming Class D airspace (it was Class C) - to be known henceforth as "Sunshine Coast Airport". Those of us that use the area are therefore forced to buy new ERSA's, VTC's etc etc etc etc to remain legal.

 

Imagine what printing of all the new charts has cost Airservices Australia following the name change - both in time editing and then in printing costs!

 

Someone probably received a promotion after making the suggestion!

 

Bureaucracy sucks.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Wish i owned the printing contract. how much is it costing the average individual?

 

Bureaucracy sucks? Australian bureaucracy sucks! Someone please pick a fight with Obama, maybe he will invade us and force their horrible FAA rules onto us.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

As of 3rd June this airport is having an "expensive" name change and becoming Class D airspace (it was Class C) - to be known henceforth as "Sunshine Coast Airport". Those of us that use the area are therefore forced to buy new ERSA's, VTC's etc etc etc etc to remain legal.

Imagine what printing of all the new charts has cost Airservices Australia following the name change - both in time editing and then in printing costs!

 

Someone probably received a promotion after making the suggestion!

 

Bureaucracy sucks.

As Metalman correctly states, Maroochy/Sunshine Coast has always been Class D.

 

To remain legal, you need to be flying with current ERSA and charts including VTC, VNC, ERCs etc all have a use by date which is printed on the front anyway, June issue would have been in the normal cycle so the implementation of the new changes have no real impact on extra costings. Its good to see that some of us who are flying around with March 2007 ersa's are now being forced to update to current publications

 

 

[motzartmerv]

:hittinghead::hittinghead:

 

 

[wags]

Not blonde either....!

 

Merv... trouble is I can't claim being blonde or related to Barnaby Joyce either!

 

Wags.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

all jokes aside, what's happening to badgerys creek, I thought that there is an airstrip there and since the federal government is decades away from building a second airport for the big planes cant see any reason why badgerys creek couldnt be developed further as a recreational aviation site:idea:

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Folks,

 

The is still The Oaks, a nice friendly place, and if you join the club that owns it, Wedderburn, a really friendly place.

 

Regards,

 

 

[Guest David C]

Folks,The is still The Oaks, a nice friendly place, and if you join the club that owns it, Wedderburn, a really friendly place.

Regards,

I couldn't agree more .. The Oaks is a great place .. Don't quite know about the ownership being Wedderburn though . I think you will find The Oaks is owned by the resident on the airfield , an ex Qantas flight engineer if I'm not mistaken ..

 

Dave C

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

David C,

 

Re. The Oaks, that's correct.

 

Re. Wedderburn, look up the web site for the NSW Sports Aviation Club.

 

Regards,

 

 

[rescue]

G'Day -from my understanding ( and please bear with me as I am still a student in this arena )

 

Camden will be Class D SFC to 1500ft during tower hours. TWR HRS are now extended to 7 days a week - Monday to Sunday 2200UTC (0800 EST ) to 0800UTC (1800 EST ).

 

This will effectively prevent an RAA Student from participating in Solo Flying Training at Camden and as already pointed out, anywhere in the Sydney basin - bar Wedderburn or The OAKS - I am sure both are excellent establishments. Unfortunately with traffic is it is at the moment travel does become a consideration

 

OK - So the Sydney Based RAA Flying Schools at Camden and Bankstown can apply for an exemption of compliance to some provisions of CAR1988. Precedence has been set with similar exemptions being granted for operators at Launceston, Cambridge and Parafield ( CASA EX08/10, CASA EX07/10, CASA EX06/10 ) are examples I have found.

 

There are specific criteria which seem reasonable ( my summary )

 

The aircraft

 

Must be RAA registered, carry a serviceable VHF radio, have a serviceable transponder if it is requirement of the aerodrome from which it will operate, meet other criteria re engine, maintenance, etc

 

The student ( to fly solo )

 

Must have at least a current Class 2 medical, a valid flight Radio operator licence or RAA radio operator endorsement. must not fly over a built up area at a height from which the aircraft cannot glide clear of dewllings, etc. Fly only in daylight under VMC or Special VFR, etc.

 

The Instructor(s)

 

must hold valid flight instructor rating issued by RAA and a CASA PPL endorsed for the category of airspace, authorise first solo flights. enter airspace certification in student log books

 

CFI

 

must be approved by CASA

 

Operator

 

may use RAA syllabus for instructing students, must ensure first solos are authorised by a senior RAA flight instructor who holds a CASA PPL endorsed for the Cat. of airspace, use the CASA Day VFR Syllabus for controlled airspace elements

 

To me this would seem like an advantage to a school in a Class D area ( Bankstown, Camden , etc.) and a basic criteria for RAA Controlled Airspace Endorsement ( if it ever gets a leg up )

 

Appreciate any corrections, comments or general advice on my observations as it seems like a 'viable' route to prevent discrimination against schools and students based on geography

 

PS. I am sure it would have a small positive impact on the GA / RAA perceived skills disputes and any well disciplined training with an opportunity to practice/develop skills will be of benefit to learners.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

So one would assume that there is a added cost to comply with the above in added equipment to the aircraft and extra ratings for the instructor. so up goes training cost from those locations.

 

 

[rescue]

Not sure Ozzie - the schools operating at these aerodromes had to comply with the equipment/aircraft and PPL requirements for instructors in order to conduct training when GAAP rules applied anyway ( when towers were operating )

 

Good point though - I reckon anything to do with 'compliance' always has both up front and hidden costs.

 

Both Bankstown and Camden airport infrastructure are owned by the same company, and their focus would be on profit so I assume operating costs for the schools are already high

 

 

[IanR]

Camden will be Class D SFC to 1500ft during tower hours. TWR HRS are now extended to 7 days a week - Monday to Sunday 2200UTC (0800 EST ) to 0800UTC (1800 EST ).

re the above Camden info - there are heaps of mistakes in the new ERSA - including 1500ft for class D - according to the briefing we had on the weekend. Until the next ERSA there will be notams covering these - so don't forget to read your notams if overflying Camden. From memory the actual top of D will be 2000.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Folks,

 

Don't forget the Airservices movement charges and aerodrome charges at a Class D, the additional cost compared to, say, The Oaks, is really significant.

 

Regards,

 

 

[Guest David C]

I couldn't agree more .. The Oaks is a great place .. Don't quite know about the ownership being Wedderburn though . I think you will find The Oaks is owned by the resident on the airfield , an ex Qantas flight engineer if I'm not mistaken ..Dave C

 

David C,Re. The Oaks, that's correct.

Re. Wedderburn, look up the web site for the NSW Sports Aviation Club.

 

Regards,

My apologies Bill .. A bit of a dyslexic moment from me I'm afraid . I read your original post and thought you had suggested that Wedderburn and The Oaks were jointly owned . I have re read it and can see what you are saying now ... I'll just my brain and eyes in sync right now !!

 

Dave C

 

 

[Chrism]

Cheers everyone

 

Thanks everybody for all your replies.

 

Thanks especially Rescue for the great info on the possibilities for Camden and Bankstown-I hope some of the schools there go down that path.

 

Chris