Skyfox - to wheel on or 3-point

[Guest dahl]

hey all, in my time in the skyfox (about 3 years) there has been much debate regarding landings. I was taught to wheel her on in most occasions but currently have been 3-pointing 1 up (no so much success 2 up as I learn't the other day on my bi-anual ) I like the 3-pointer just for the fact that you have a much shorter landing distance, but have been told that the skyfox is more at home in a wheeler aproach

 

anyway does anyone have any thoughts, what is your method of landing the fox?

 

thanks,

 

dahl

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hi Dahl. just wondering if you fly the Quicksilver out of Maitland? if so, what do RNAC charge and require?.

 

Looking at your foto i get the feeling that the main gear should be moved more forward to achive good three pointers. It looks like it has been designed for easy conversion to dinky gear. magic looking aircraft Dahl. (read as envy)

 

Regards Ozzie

 

 

[Guest dahl]

maitland

 

Hey ozzie,

 

I have never flown the quicksilver out of Maitland but there are a lot of trikes there so I couldn't see too much of a problem. Are you thinking of taking the Lazair there? I could make some inquiries next weekend for you...

 

Dahl

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hi Dahl, that would be good if it is not a problem. i have just made a few changes and would like to do some test runs in an open area. just in case. some of the places i have been flying from are just too tight if i have an engine out. If those cranky 2 strokes run ok in flight i'll go back to paddock bashing. lots of traffic to contend with in that area and as i have no radio i feel a little vunerable with my 35mph cruise.

 

thanks again Ozzie.

 

 

[Guest dahl]

Hey Ozzie,

 

I was up at Maitland on Sunday but I was unable to speak to anyone who could help me out. I managed to get Anthony Moor's card (CFI at maitland).

 

phone. 02 49328888 for the club or 0412686737. apparently he has monday/tuesday off but you should be able to catch him on any other day.

 

Dahl

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

HI Dahl,

 

Thanks for the contact numbers. If it is the same Tony i think i worked with him about 15 yrs ago. As he is cfi now it would be a good excuse to drop in. Again time is the issue. thanks again and hope to catch up with you soon.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Yenn]

I have found that it is better to 3 point all the ultralights and GA taildraggers that I have flown. There is more control from the tailwheel steering and you are through that area when the rudder loses control much quicker.

 

Another advantage is that if you only do 3 pointers, than every landing is a practice forced landing. With quite a bit of time on Thrusters I tried a wheel landing once at the suggestion of several people and once is enough for me.

 

Ian Borg

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

I haven't flown the skyfox but from a Thruster point of view I prefer to wheel them as it is kinder on the tail wheel unit.

 

On other G.A. aircraft its not such a big deal but i've found wheeling it on in a bit of wind gives more control if you get a gust when your about to touch down. If your almost stalled and get kicked sideways there isn't much room to do anything.

 

I alway try and practice a few of each to keep my hand in. Hey thats half the fun of flying tailwheels!

 

Adam.

 

 

[Guest dahl]

Hey chris,

 

I only have a couple of hours in a gazelle so someone might correct me but in the air I can't recall much difference, slightly faster airspeed due to no nose wheel but other than that fairly similar as I remember. She can be a bit of a handful on the ground, especially on tar, If your not on top of the rudders then you can quickly find yourself in trouble (I have been lucky I haven't bent her((touch wood!)) but have had some landings that I have come out of and just shaken my head;) .I try to land on grass when ever I can just to stop that initial grab when I touch down. Basically the rule with taildraggers is you don't stop flying until its in the hanger, and this definitely applies to our girl....

 

Dahl

 

 

[rick-p]

Just to be different, in my view everyone should be taught to wheel a tail dragger on before they learn to three point it. I am of the firm view, as are a number of instructors I have spoken to, that learning to wheel on a TD certainly requires a certain amount of accurate judgement as to the aircraft position relative to the ground and a more accurate point of flare.

 

It also makes for a much more controlled landing in a stiff cross wind as it requires a little more forward momentum to keep the tail up hence more airflow over the control surfaces and less effect from the cross wind.

 

This is my view and i'm sticking to it as experiance has proven it to me, to be correct.

 

rick-p

 

 

[facthunter]

Skyfox- wheel or 3 point

 

I have been watching this post for a while, & while I agree with most already said, I think the occasion should dictate the appropriate technique. Many years ago,( I'll leave it at that ) the standard landing was 3-point, & you were a bit of a wimp if you didn't do one

 

They are easier to judge. (not just my view).

 

You land slower & use a lot less runway

 

You usually touch down looking out the side (as you can't see over the front) Some people do funny things with the aileron under these conditions,initially.

 

The rudder is not very effective near the ground, unless a bit of power is left on.

 

Unless the A/c is stalled in the 3-point attitude, a wind gust will see the aircraft become airborne, with little spare airspeed,& little control.

 

Most U/L type aircraft do not have sufficiently strong tail wheel assemblies to put up with any but the most skillfully executed 3-pointers on a continuous basis.

 

Application of differential braking is not considered to be a good technique for directional control after landing, as it is too savage. Timely and positive rudder application is the deal

 

Sure, what about wheelers?

 

They are harder to judge. (Not just my view) If the contact with the ground is not perfectly executed, the A/C will very rapidly respond with a nose up pitch that will get your attention.

 

You will use more runway, especially in nil wind conditions, so allow for it.

 

In gusty winds, I believe it is the only technique where you give yourself the best fighting chance,because you have optimised your ability to control the aircraft, as you are not slow while in the air. If the approach becomes unsafe, you are in the best position to do a well controlled go-around.

 

In a steady x-wind use either technique.

 

If you must land down wind (ie uphill ) expect directional control difficulties in a tailwheel A/C.everytime.

 

Your views? N....

 

 

[rick-p]

Fachunter, well put.

 

It just about says it all about both attitudes relevant to putting a TD safely back on the ground.

 

rick-p

 

 

[facthunter]

3-point

 

Thank you kind sir, Of course we could go on as to techniques but that will bring in myriad opinions. It is quite fruitful to examine the forces operating on the aircraft with different undercarriage positions. A taildragger would prefer to go tailwheel first(if you took the rudder off) they are intrinsically directionally unstable. The further forward the mainwheels, the worse it gets. Consider the Fiesler storch with its long undercarriage, when its in the 3-point attitude. N...

 

 

[rick-p]

"Facthunter" I sincerely apologise to you for my innocent error in the spelling of your name.

 

It was, I can assure you, the typo Gremlin that made me do it.

 

Those little beings that hide in or about the keys of the computer keyboard deliberately, just as you go to strike the correct key, subsituting another key in the correct key's place just so you will look like a Goose to all those who read your posts or worse still have them thinking that you are trying to be funny.

 

I suppose they are the same as those little Gremlins that come into play when you are desperately trying to show to those watching from terra firma that your 3 point landings are the bee's knees and you end up with your backside pointing in the opposite direction from which ye came, or is it just the fat fingers syndrome? Who really knows?

 

Truthfully it was just a mistake, I wasn't trying to be rude.

 

Kind regards,

 

rick-p

 

 

[facthunter]

#-point landings etc

 

rick-p I'm not offended at all. In fact I was genuinely gratified by your comment , but I would have to assure you that my statement does not say it all. There is a bit of a bogey about tailwheel aircraft, & any extra understanding (in a real sense ) rather than snake oil, is helpful. Newtons laws explain what is going on, if we analyse the situation correctly. I don't think they are for everybody, ( taildraggers) as the tricycle undercarriage does make life easier, especially if the nosewheel is set so the tail is high, And then they don't wheelbarrow if you come in a little fast in gusty conditions. The nosewheel in RAAus type aircraft will always be a structural weak point, however and needs to be nursed.

 

I sometimes wonder why I fly a tailwheel aircraft, when I don't have to.

 

They definately have more character, & you notice how you move a little forward in the seat on final & take a bit more care with your feet & elevators lest it bring you undone. Maybe that's it. Happy TD's . Nev...

 

 

[Yenn]

If you land with wheels first and have more speed for directional control, what happens when you slow down. Do you not go through that slower speed area?

 

Another point about landing uphill. There is a big change of C og G between level and tail low. Uphill landing gives a bit more aft C of G making for easier ground loops but a much less risk of nosing over with braking.

 

Ian Borg

 

 

[facthunter]

3-point?

 

Ian, the best time to do a wheeler is when you have a gusty headwind and you need the extra speed for control and to cover a windsheer situation. Recommend power on as well with active throttle in extreme conditions,to give best control & to cover a possible need to go-around. Yes,( when you reduce power & hold the tail up,when on the ground so you won't get airborne again in gusts),as you slow up you will lose some rudder authority, but you are into a headwind and this helps. Judgement as to when you would put the tail on the ground depends on how effective the hook-up to the steerable tailwheel works. If it does an arc into wind (if its a cross-wind as well) at this stage, you're going pretty slow,& not likely to do much damage, except a red face, hopefully N...

 

 

[Big Kev]

:devil:

 

Will the design of the SF allow modification for a nosewheel? I imagine though that this would negate any weight advantage over a Gazelle anyway?

 

 

Kev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I don't know wather i agree about the wheelers being the go..I learned in a TG skyfox, and my instructor said, if you learn the wheeler you'll never try the 3 pointer, cause its just to hard comparetivly..I found that i needed to sit on a pillow so i could still see over the nose once i'd flared...but the go is, get her down to coffe table height and just try holding it there forever with the power off, as she sinks come back on the stick and bobs ya aunty..My opinion is to 3 point, touchdown speed is greatly reduced and as long as ya ontop of ya rudder, yas hould be sweet.

 

 

[Guest ramcam]

bollocks

 

3 point it. you cut down the time in no mans land (neither fling or taxiing).

 

If you are still bouncing your three pointers, then you are either not looking far enough ahead or you are trying to land it not fly it along the strip. If the stick is fully hard back, you will touch tail first.

 

 

[arwtee]

Is the skyfox any different to other tail draggers

 

After mostly flying gliders and tail drag GA aircraft, I've always been more comfortable in tail draggers......Is the skyfox just another typical tail dragger or does it have it's own set of issues to deal with? I'm thinking about buying one .

 

Rob

 

 

[facthunter]

Different?

 

Arwtee, If you are interested in buying one, find someone who will let you fly one and make up your own mind, preferably an experienced pilot / instructor on type. Nev..

 

 

[arwtee]

skyfox flying schools in Sydney / central west

 

Does anyone know any schools that operate Skyfoxes in the Sydney or Central West areas that I can try one out?

 

 

[Mike S]

I'd like to know that too Arwtee -