Close Calls

[dazza 38]

Please contribute any dangerous situations you have been in aviation.EG- close to a Mid Air or someone landing in the opposite direction to you. etc Cheers

 

 

[facthunter]

Critique.

 

Could end up being something between a confessional, an a bit of limelighting/ grandstanding. Most of the older blokes could tell you of a few really interesting occurrences, but would they be believed?. I had dealings with a chap who used to come out to RNAC (Rutherford) and putter around in an Auster that I presumed he owned. I was involved in mucking around with hotted up Peugeot cars and when I left to live in Melbourne to take up a flyng job there, this guy that I had got to know quite well,(with the Auster), bought all the spare Peugeot hot up parts that I had left over His name was Brian Walker. Have you ever heard of "Black Jack Walker" of coral sea battles with The 'whispering death" Beaufighters. Same Bloke. I never heard him say a word about his experiences and only read about who he was, many years later when I studied histories of the RAF, RAAF etc. Nev.

 

 

[shags_j]

I know I posted this a while ago...

 

Was doing circuits at caboolture one day. Was turned base when a meatbomber entered the runway to line up. I turned final and it was still there. All my radio calls were right etc. Even did a short final call (just to make sure). I had decided to go around but all the radio chatter in the area hadn't allowed me to make the call. Just before I crossed the threshold the cessna gave a rolling call! Scared the crappers out of me. I jumped on the radio and told them not too. Went around ok and everything was fine.

 

Had a few thoughts about the whole situation. I should have made a radio directed to the aircraft.

 

From her part of view it's like the human factors training. She turned up, went to start the aircraft, just before runup someone from the jump school told her that she hadn't contacted brisbane tower to inform them of the jump. So with a full plane she had to stop, go out and make the phone call, come back. Aircraft wouldn't start when she came back. So by the time she had taxi'd out she had had a lot go wrong and didn't have her mind clear and 100% on the job.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Cruising round the shore of Port Phillip Bay in a Warrior, and there was a loud roar and a C210 came streaking out from under the nose about 50 feet below me travelling about 45 degrees from left to right. Called him up, but no response.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi CFI, I have before, the one with the mooney over Nth Stradbroke, different thread though. I thought of starting this thread, because i thought that it might be helpful. As for the near miss i had over straddie, with out going into detail again. We were both at fault, it was very hazey, although we were in contact with each other, and we new we were close to each other, we still ended up "REAL" close to each other. Personaly, i dont mind saying here that i was equally at fault.If someone reads this and other guys stories, and gets benefit from it, i will be happy . Cheers

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Nev, in response to you post #3, Aero Australia magazine always has a write up every month, on a Pilot from the WW2, era called "Aero Sky Warriors".As you have described above with BlackJack Walker,they never talk about this and that,or what has happened to them, its like a writer has to drag the information out of them, to get a story. I read alot, i enjoy those stories.Anyway as you have mentioned previously, "FATE IS THE HUNTER", by Ernest Gannst, that is a wonderful book, i learned a alot from that book.

 

ps- as you have mentioned, this is for you realy experienced guys out their, im sure would have some great experiences to tell,i realy hope that you would be believed, because someone might/will find themselves in a similar situation sooner or later, and if they remember,(the story) they might be able to make a better informed decision.Cheers

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

I know I posted this a while ago...Was doing circuits at caboolture one day. Was turned base when a meatbomber entered the runway to line up. I turned final and it was still there. All my radio calls were right etc. Even did a short final call (just to make sure). I had decided to go around but all the radio chatter in the area hadn't allowed me to make the call. Just before I crossed the threshold the cessna gave a rolling call! Scared the crappers out of me. I jumped on the radio and told them not too. Went around ok and everything was fine.

 

Had a few thoughts about the whole situation. I should have made a radio directed to the aircraft.

 

From her part of view it's like the human factors training. She turned up, went to start the aircraft, just before runup someone from the jump school told her that she hadn't contacted brisbane tower to inform them of the jump. So with a full plane she had to stop, go out and make the phone call, come back. Aircraft wouldn't start when she came back. So by the time she had taxi'd out she had had a lot go wrong and didn't have her mind clear and 100% on the job.

I was there that day shags- yep that's how it went and YCAB CTAF places a lot of demand on good radio procedures. Pretty hard when you can't get a (Important) word in.We could all write a book from things I see daily there. Last weekend's rwy24 operations were interesting.

Fess up time - I went to enter not long ago at YRED 07 and failed to see a finals aircraft behind 2 hovering choppers, I made the entering call and was quickly advised( in certain terms). Radio worked in this case and was the right back up for my lack of vigilence- As Facthunters says "Never stop learning"

 

On the other side,

 

I've had a RV6 cut through downwind right at 1040' in front and numerous A/C on non operational opposite ccts and many more. I don't blame them, there's no point, just glad I saw them first. At the end of the day there's no point being dead right.

 

Look, listen,lament, learn and hopefully laugh about it!

 

 

[sain]

I had one similair to shags. I was extremely recently solo and I was doing circuits with a bunch of other aircraft.

 

On the downwind leg I spotted a plane in the run up area (presumably doing checks) and thought it was a bit odd as I hadn't heard a taxi call. I decided to keep an eye on it and kept going round my circuit. About half way down the final leg of the circuit the plane taxied towards the runway edge before stopping. I gave a short finals call to indicate I was there and not far from landing.

 

As I crossed the airport boundry fence the plane taxied out onto the run way and gave an entering and lining up call. I promptly gave a "going round" call, as did the plane coming down finals behind me.

 

Unfortunately that wasn't quite the end of the episode, as after saying "oh was that me, sorry" he took off anyway, coming up straight underneath me (much faster climber than the gazelle). Fortunately he turned onto his crosswind leg at a below-legal height, which occured shortly before I reached 500ft agl and commenced my turn. This gave me one hell of a shock when I did a deliberate traffic check look out before doing my turn and spotted him still in mid turn through the clear pilot side door not very far away.

 

 

[facthunter]

Analysis so far.

 

It is significant that most so far have been related to near- miss situations. This corresponds to my own experience in recent times. Not dramatic but a few that are too close for comfort. ALL involving aircraft flying at the same height and below 5,000', where you don't have to (but should) fly hemispherical heights.

 

Pulling out to line up, with aircraft on final indicates an inadequate lookout. High wing aircraft should position themselves at an angle to the circuit traffic where the approaching traffic is visible at the holding point. Nev

 

 

[shags_j]

Last weekend's rwy24 operations were interesting.

Wasn't it just. Amazed when everyone took off on 24 to go to Gatton (when there was no wind, i'm sure runway 24 is not to be used for takeoffs). Then when I returned windsock pointing right at 24 and everone was on 30. Saw Someone change to 24 so I landed, taxiied then started circuits on 24.

 

Amazing how something that is a little strange happens and no one wants to adjust...

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Wasn't it just. Amazed when everyone took off on 24 to go to Gatton (when there was no wind, i'm sure runway 24 is not to be used for takeoffs). Then when I returned windsock pointing right at 24 and everone was on 30. Saw Someone change to 24 so I landed, taxiied then started circuits on 24.Amazing how something that is a little strange happens and no one wants to adjust...

RWY 24 " no takeoff on 24 unless emergency or inclement weather"- I guess the emergency that early must have been the bacon getting burnt at Gatton! You're right Shag's it's there to keep the hospital happy, most who do use it for the stronger SWesterlies always turn early to avoid overflying the houses. Landings are OK if wind dictates.

At least the thread seems to have gathered some steam- good for sharing.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Not so long ago, I was on takeoff on Runway 36 at Shepparton, and happily on climb and was about to raise the flaps, when I looked to my right, and there was a Seneca coming towards me, but slightly above.

 

I had a really good look at the underside of that plane, and a really good look at the crud on the underside of the engine nacelles. I could not see the crew.

 

I was at 500AGL when we were at the closest, and there was about 100ft vertical separation.

 

Ben

 

 

[rgmwa]

Close enough..

 

I was practising touch and goes about a year ago in a C152, and was accelerating for takeoff when I heard the tower alert me to helicopter traffic adjacent to the runway. I saw the big yellow rescue helicopter hovering just off the ground to the left of the runway, and assumed he was waiting for me to go past.

 

Not so. It turns out he was on an emergency ascent to attend a car accident out in the country, and took off climbing fast, directly across the runway not far ahead of me. By the time that registered in my student brain, I was off the gound as well and climbing towards him.

 

He was a bit quicker than me, so we missed each other by what seemed an uncomfortably small margin. I got a fright, as did another student who had just turned onto downwind only to see the helicopter cutting across his path too. No doubt the helicopter pilots and the tower knew what they were doing, but it certainly increased my situational awareness in a hurry.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Guest Pioneer200]

I was practising touch and goes about a year ago in a C152, and was accelerating for takeoff when I heard the tower alert me to helicopter traffic adjacent to the runway. I saw the big yellow rescue helicopter hovering just off the ground to the left of the runway, and assumed he was waiting for me to go past. Not so. It turns out he was on an emergency ascent to attend a car accident out in the country, and took off climbing fast, directly across the runway not far ahead of me. By the time that registered in my student brain, I was off the gound as well and climbing towards him.

 

He was a bit quicker than me, so we missed each other by what seemed an uncomfortably small margin. I got a fright, as did another student who had just turned onto downwind only to see the helicopter cutting across his path too. No doubt the helicopter pilots and the tower knew what they were doing, but it certainly increased my situational awareness in a hurry.

 

rgmwa

I wonder why the tower left it to the last minute to inform you of the choppers position and did not inform you its intentions considering it was an emergency takeoff.Bit slack really.

 

Surely you were both on the same freq???

 

 

[The Wolf]

I witnessed a bit of a close call a while ago. I was visiting someone at an airfield to see their plane. There must have been a fly-in or something as there was a large amount of weight-shift planes (plus the usual jabs, foxbats ect). There was no wind (not enough to really sway the 'ol windsock) The fly-in was using 20 so they could get a straight flight to their next destination. A line up was forming along the side, off the active runway. As they were taking off a minor wind developed, meaning they were taking off with a small tail wind.

 

As this occured a local taxied for a flight, checked the windsock and called that he was using the opposite runway. Another line formed behind him. Confusion broke out, as it wasnt a CTAF® so some of the planes didnt have radios and were unaware of the change, and obviously the other side thought they knew that someone had decided to use the opposite runway. I didnt have a full view of the runway, but there were quite a few panicked "stop rolling!" and "Aborting takeoff!" calls from different aircraft.

 

 

[Gibbo]

Closest call I've had was about 95nm out of Roma taking off from a unmarked farm strip (bloody hard to spot from the air!) and had a f-18 pass over the top of me no more than 300-400' above me as I left the ground. Nothing like the smell of Avtur early in the morning. I Did get a radio call afterwards and we both had a chuckle after the bumps from the downwash.

 

Worst sight I have seen was on Lower Dandenong Rd and had the displeasure of seeing two c-15? or C-17? ducking and weaving trying to spot each other on short final at Morrabin. There was no more than 50' between them. Oct 09 i_dunno

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Haven't had any real close calls in an aircraft, but i've had two skydiving one in freefall about 50 mters away and one under canopy like real close i almost chopped and went back into freefall but by the time i got to my handles he a zagged away from me. A few weeks ago we had two C130's overfly the house well under 500ft. when they went past i could see into the rear. they were heading for singleton happens at least twice a year. they do a couple of day jumps and one at night each time. i hear the FA18's quite a lot but never see them there even lower.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Heli

 

I wonder why the tower left it to the last minute to inform you of the choppers position and did not inform you its intentions considering it was an emergency takeoff.Bit slack really.Surely you were both on the same freq???

We probably weren't on the same frequency as they were making a departure, and I was on the circuit frequency. I assume that the tower gave them a clearance, but ultimately it must have been the heli pilots' decision to cut across my path, so they must have decided they had enough room. I thought they cut it a bit fine, and no doubt the other student on downwind (RH circuit) did too. However, you don't get to fly one of those helicopters unless you really know what you are doing, so experience counts I guess.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[djpacro]

Worst sight I have seen was on Lower Dandenong Rd and had the displeasure of seeing two c-15? or C-17? ducking and weaving trying to spot each other on short final at Morrabin.

I was at the holding point and saw it too. I guess it was the same incident. The Tower sorted it out once he determined which was which, it took a little while for him to be sure - similar types and colours.

[Guest davidh10]

Not a close call, but could have been

 

On one of my early nav flights I was approaching Shepparton AD from Tocumwal at 3,500'. My original plan called for doing a touch and go at YSHT.

 

There had been a number of calls from one aircraft doing circuits and a couple of others joining the circuit and landing. This was all good and I was practicing spotting the aircraft in the circuit and on the airfield. Then came another joining call, but I couldn't spot the aircraft. After scanning quite a few times, I finally spotted it... doing a RH circuit. Doh! No RH circuit in ERSA for YSHT!

 

I was also exchanging position info with another aircraft on the same heading but 1,000' below and rapidly closing on my position.

 

My instructor suggested that we skip the touch and go and head back on the last leg to YYWG in case the wind got any stronger. At that stage of my training, my task loading in this situation had caused me to not notice the wind strength had been creeping up and was now gusting to 60kn.

 

If I had been continuing with my plan to do a touch and go, I would have been already descending to circuit height on the inactive side before joining.

 

As it was, I turned for Yarrawonga, and a long leg back it was with ground speed dropping to 34kn at times.

 

I guess that the lesson for me was that if I cannot see an aircraft where I expect it from a call, then check the reciprocal direction and also check the reflected position about the AD.

 

 

[Sam]

Ive had a close call with the RFDS. I was doing circuits at YPIR (Port Pirie) building up my solo hours when she entered circuit with me. I was just turning base as she was entering, i'm flying a Jabiru J160 so im a bit slower than her. Before i knew it i was lined up on final and she had just called turning final. I had done all my radio calls correctly and assumed that she extended her downwind leg. I no sooner touched down when she asked me to expedite. I was still cruising along with the taxiway on the other side of the runway so i couldnt really just exit and i wasnt going to go any faster as i would almost takeoff! I replied 'negative'. The radio fell silent for a few seconds then she finally said 'RFDS going round' Phew i thought. All of the sudden a loud roar buzzes only a few meters above me. She could have landed right on top of me if she wanted! i must say a few colourful words were muttered quietly. I continued my taxi back to my instructor, when i hopped out i asked her what happened with the RFDS plane. She was astonished with how close the RFDS actually came to me before actually deciding to go round. From where she was standing she thought it was no more than 6m clearance.

 

When the RFDS did eventually land they came over to the flight schools building and sincerely appologised for the incindent and had said that she had misinterpreted the aircraft i was flying and therefore thought that my approach speed was higher. They werent in a hurry as no patients were yet on-board and they still had to wait for the ambulance to come to the airport.

 

Not everyday you get buzzed by the RFDS! :raise_eyebrow:

 

 

[turboplanner]

However, you don't get to fly one of those helicopters unless you really know what you are doing, so experience counts I guess.

Never pays to assume that - he may be a 20,000 hour pilot distracted by screaming in the back, or this might just be his once in a lifetime Human Factors Failure

 

 

[rgmwa]

Never pays to assume that - he may be a 20,000 hour pilot distracted by screaming in the back, or this might just be his once in a lifetime Human Factors Failure

Too true. Always pays to expect the unexpected.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Sam, if someone in a faster aircraft asks you to 'expidiate' or vacate, consider the grass verge if it is in good nick, usually 20 mts or so is available in most of the bigger airports.

 

 

[flying dog]

I'm going to have to read all these.

 

Interesting reading.

 

Ok, quick post now, bigger one to come.

 

When I was learning to fly, my CFI said this - and I shall take the flack if there is any.

 

As you are taxiing towards the runway, make your call a bit back. WAIT about 10 seconds after the call before even thinking of going past the hold point.

 

Then, LOOK AGAIN to make sure you didn't miss the plane on short final who is doing a dead stick landing.

 

This way, if there is a plane on finals with problems or is busy, and they missed your call, they will have time to see you and say "Hey! I'm landing!" BEFORE you are on the runway.

 

Those aren't the exact words used either, by the way.