It is true...

[kgwilson]

This thread has been an interesting read having just returned from a period of internet isolation. Anyone who has read my posts in the Just Landed forum will know that I am a Sierra tragic.

 

Having flown 5172 I can attest to the brilliance of the design. Its controllability at very low speed close to stall was quite amazing. On reading the stall values published I immediately took them with a grain of salt due to being very impressive but also as such basic round numbers.

 

When I flew 5172 last December the IAS was indeed around 30-35kt on landing. At 2000 feet there was still good control response at 38-40kts IAS. Buffet didn't really occur till about 35kts IAS but I didn't go to full stall at any stage. On the first flight I was more intent on what the aircraft was telling me by feel and making sure my control inputs were right than reading the ASI to the exact IAS value or correlating this with the GPS.

 

As I think Tomo said it is an Experimental design and until full certification for a factory built aircraft is achieved we have to assume the figures are also somewhat experimental. Whatever the published numbers say it is the full range of flight characteristics that count for me and how the aircraft feels and what the instruments say at any given point.

 

Cheers

 

Kevin

 

 

[Guest russ.mullins]

Hey Tommo, top marks for standing up for what you believe in ole mate, you have put up a brave and honourable fight against the disbelievers, and they certainly have good science on their side. I think both camps have presented good arguments, the disbelievers have used solid undisputable science, and you have unfortunetely been bitten by the bug of having flown a Sierra. I feel deeply for you mate because I made the same mistake (but in a Cheetah). The lure of removable wings and a fast cruise led me towards these aircraft despite some credible advice to stay away. And as a Cheetah owner I can really feel for you because once you've flow one of these aircraft its difficult to match them for performance. I eventually had to go with my gut, some people like holdens and some people like Fords, aircraft choice is subjective and I made my choice based on the knowledge I had at the time and I have no regrets (especially when I'm practicing stalls!!). I must say however that I feel a bit sorry for Gary Morgan throughout this debate which has at times made veiled accusations of him breaching the trade practices act and telling fibs. Gary is a good person and my assessment of him (and I hope he doesnt read this) is that he is deep thinker and a gifted aeronautical engineer who has taken a simple wing profile (RAAF 48) and built a low cost aircraft around it which has outstanding performance. Gary drives around in a clapped out old car, lives in a modest home and has devoted his life to his passion for the aircraft he designs and builds, he's not in this for the money or he'd be off doing something that pays him better for his ability. I know people with half his passion and engineering ability who have made a lot of money from their gift, but this bloke has been bitten by his engineering genius and may never make more than a basic living out of his aircraft. Gary is one of the great aviators/engineers of Australia who has cotributed a great deal to Recreational Aviation and he should be proud of his contribution to our fantastic class of flying. I am disappointed by the negative comments that have been directed towards him.

 

My apologies for re-inflating this debate, but I feel compelled to compliment you on your determination to defend what you believe in despite the weight of scientific evidence hurtled your way. I admire you pluck and look forward to meeting up with you one day.

 

 

[winsor68]

I wish Garry every success... I think with the little I have seen he is passionate about the aircraft. And the little I have seen of the aircraft it is certainly something very special... The instrument panel alone is the best I have seen. Perhaps 10 years from now there will be as many certified factory Sierras around as Jabirus today...

 

 

[Tomo]

Well said Russ, and thanks - look forward to meeting you one day also.

 

I always have high respect for those making a difference, not for themselves, but for others.

 

He isn't the type of sales person that uses many words, but he has a product that says it all.

 

 

[Spin]

Gents, don't mistake a little healthy scepticism regarding unrealistic figures for being anti the product or the designer/manufacturer. I haven't even flown an Aeroworks product yet and I'm very keen to have a closer look.

 

You'll find though that most of those who expressed misgivings ( let's not forget these were justified by Garry's own response) are those who have seen this sort of thing before. Anyone remember the rave review the original Shaw Europa got? Anyone remember the little aircraft and rotary engine Richard Noble promoted - ARV? later sold as a Highlander or something. Even the Jabiru was originally supposed to dominate the training market and render old school Cessnas etc obsolete. Turns out all of those were good aircraft, but didn't rewrite the rules of aerodynamics or engineering best practice. At this stage of development, improvements are generally incremental not revolutionary and any claims which require one to suspend disbelief and "just accept" are understandably suspect. Handling is largely subjective, specifications are not.

 

 

[Spin]

Ha ha, seems we were bashing away at the keyboard at the same time David.

 

 

[Guest russ.mullins]

Black Rod, now your getting personal and I choose not to engage. I have judged Gary Morgan as I have found him and I have judged his aircraft on their performance, and I have judged you on your defamatory personal comments. Try sticking to the science, you were more convincing.

 

 

[winsor68]

edited - post referred to earlier edit post making allegations about a person without published proof. Lets stick to things, not people. - moderator