VNC's WAC's?????

[shags_j]

Ok,

 

What is the difference between the two? Which is more beneficial for somewhere like warwick?

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

WAC has less detail than the VNC (due to the scale). When flying into somewhere I usually go from WAC to VNC to VTC.

 

 

[facthunter]

Maps and charts.

 

Use the WAC 1/1,000,000 for track and distance . Borders of adjacent maps do not exactly align, but you get by. The scale all over the map is the same. You need plenty of room laying them out if you are doing a long trip (at the planning stage). You get some idea of the topographical information (Terrain and features) to assist in working out altitudes for terrain clearance etc and map reading . Basic navigation. Nev

 

 

[JayKay]

The difference between the two is: ... (copied off the RAA website)

 

World Aeronautical Charts: the 43 Australian WACs are very small scale (1:1 000 000), derived from aerial photography, and designed for pre-flight planning and pilotage. They are part of an ICAO international series. They do not indicate CTR or PRD, nor is there any FIA, radiocommunications or radionavigation information. As the reissue frequency is 3–5 years the base can be substantially out of date, particularly in regard to the road/rail/power transmission line infrastructure. Amendment lists for each edition are published in AIP SUP but these amendments generally relate to location of airstrips and special activities rather than topography or infrastructure. Each WAC generally covers 6° of longitude and 4° of latitude. Sheet dimensions are about 70 × 60 cm and the scale is such that a real distance of one nautical mile is represented by less than 2 mm on the chart; thus WACs are really not suited to low-altitude navigation in slow aircraft.

 

Visual Navigation Charts: the VNCs are a larger scale at 1:500 000 and show airspace information and FIS detail over the topographic base. They are reissued at six-monthly intervals but the base topographic detail may not be up to date. They are far superior to the WACs for both flight planning and pilotage. VNC sheet dimensions are about 100 × 60 cm and contain the following airspace detail:

 

•CTR, CTA dimensions and lower levels

 

•Flight Information Area and Radar Information Service boundaries where available

 

•Flight Information Service and Radar Information Service frequencies and providers

 

•communication and navigation aid frequencies for licensed airfields

 

•PRD areas.

 

There are only eight VNCs, those available covering only the more populous areas of Australia — Melbourne to Brisbane, plus areas around Perth, Adelaide and Darwin.

 

 

[Yenn]

VNC no good for Qld, there is only the South of Qld on VNC at the moment, although we are promised they are going to extend the coverage soon.

 

When the VNCs were originally produced they were touted as covering all the East coast, but it has taken constant lobbying for years to maybe at last get them as far as Cairns. They are a much more useful chart than the WAC in my opinion.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

If you want to see how inaccurate these charts can be, look at the position of Murga (on a line between YFBS and YBTH) on both the Canberra WAC and Newcastle VNC-3. The town is around 3 miles out of position.

 

 

[djpacro]

And if you are in a part of the country where you need a WAC then you'll also need an ERC for the airspace and radio info. Beats me why the ERC doesn't have the same scale as the WAC.

 

Its a pity that Australia doesn't learn more from how aviation is committed in the USA. Their WACs also have similar info to their Sectionals (similar to our VNC). Take a peek at SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts

 

 

[country kid]

its good to keep a copy of both WAC and VNC charts as some include things the later dont. thats about all i can ad :D

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Folks,

 

Personally, for most of my VFR flying, I prefer to use the 1:500,000 Tactical Pilotage Charts for up and down the east cost/eastern states, plus a suitable Airservices chart for the airspace boundaries and frequencies ---- despite the fact that I am usually moving fairly quickly, compared to most small aircraft.

 

Re. the US Sectionals, one of the interesting "usage" problems is the standard tints to depict elevation --- given the amount of high ground, reading maps that are tan/dark tan in general color makes reading the details, printing etc., quite difficult in daylight, even harder for old eyes at night.

 

Regards,

 

 

[Yenn]

Could the reason for having WAC, VNC, VTC etc be the desire to make more money. if we are required to carry a WAC and a VTC, but the VNC is more user friendly we are going to be buying more charts.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

... Beats me why the ERC doesn't have the same scale as the WAC.

Because ERC is not scaled at all. It is a logical depiction of routes and due to the density of routes around some nodes, it is more readable to depict it schematically.

 

BTW, just one additional bit of info... VFR pilots will only use ERC-Low. ERC-High is only used if flying above FL180 (18,000')

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Could the reason for having WAC, VNC, VTC etc be the desire to make more money. if we are required to carry a WAC and a VTC, but the VNC is more user friendly we are going to be buying more charts.

I don't think so. The maps are different scales (see VFRG Page 118 for details of what they cover and the scales).

 

The whole country could not be usefully depicted on charts at the VTC scale... there would be hundreds of them. Where you need the most detail is around major "Terminals" ie capital city and major regional ADs. Out in the middle of nowhere, much less detail is needed. Indeed there is often not much to actually put on the map.

 

Yarrawonga is one of those funny places that exists just on the edge of the Albury VTC and also just on the edge of the Melbourne VNC, so I end up using mostly the Melbourne VNC and the Canberra WAC. If I am heading toward Albury, then the VTC gives much better detail of the CTA Steps etc and in NSW, it is off the Melbourne VNC, so it is the only choice. Away from Albury and off tghe edge of the VTC, the Canberra WAC is the chart to use. Yes, sometimes I think I'd like to have some more detail, but a lot of the landscape can be fairly featureless, so it may not add that much.

 

I actually subscribe to AirNav VFR, which provides all the maps I need at less cost than buying the paper maps. As a bonus, I can print off the map sections needed for a Nav with routes and notes on them and then do it again next time. This program licences the maps from Airservices Australia.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[djpacro]

Because ERC is not scaled at all.

davidh10, can you expand on that please?

My ERC L1 has a scale of 1:1375000. My L2 has a scale of 1:1340000. My L3 and L4 have a scale of 1:1140000. I navigate with the WAC but I need to know where I am wrt some things on the ERC so it would seem logical to me that they should be the same scale rather than approx 12% different.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

davidh10, can you expand on that please?My ERC L1 has a scale of 1:1375000. My L2 has a scale of 1:1340000. My L3 and L4 have a scale of 1:1140000. I navigate with the WAC but I need to know where I am wrt some things on the ERC so it would seem logical to me that they should be the same scale rather than approx 12% different.

My mistake. You are correct.

 

Even when I look in the old VFRG, it says they are at "various scales", so it isn't a change in the new release of charts. Somehow I've had it in my head that they were unscaled:blush:

 

Thanks for picking me up on that point.

 

I have seldom used the ERC, and then only for information that is omitted on a WAC, but which would normally be on a VNC if there was one to cover the area in question. Things like prohibited, restricted or danger areas have a designation that allows a location to be looked up in ERSA, and details in DAH.

 

Yes, it would make it easier to scale between the ERC and WAC if they were the same scale, however that would require as many ERCs as WACs. The ERCs cover larger areas than the WACs, due to having very scanty geographic detail. Each chart type has its purpose, and I still don't think that ERC's primary purpose is to locate things by scaling, but rather to provide data that can be used in conjunction with other sources.

 

 

[Yenn]

Would you use a WAC chart fo preference if there was a VNC chart of the required area? Not being in an area covered by VNC I am not certain, but it seems to me that there is nothing important on a WAC chart that is not on the VNC of the same area.

 

 

[shags_j]

So no vnc for warwick? Basically if i was to go to an unfamiliar aerodrome for a local flight, what sort of map would I want to pick up?

 

 

[Mazda]

Shags for YCAB you can use VTC/VNC. I think Warwick is on the VNC. The WAC has better topographical informtion than the other visul charts so it is good to have nd they don't change often. It hs no airspce though, so you'll need VNC/VTC and/or ERC low to cover the flight. If you are outside coverage of VTC or VNC you will need WAC and ERC.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Shags - have a word with Zane. Even if you aren't in a position to do your XC endorsement right now, you might be able to sit in on the initial classroom briefing with somebody who is. You'll learn all this and a lot more ;-)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[shags_j]

Thanks John. Good point. I will do just that.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Shags;

 

The maps have a six months currency, with new ones just out (3rd June to 17 November validity) and the next set will be 18th November. It is not legal to fly on expired maps so I suggest that you purchase only the ones that are useful to you at the time.

 

For non-flight learning purposes, if budget is an issue, I'm sure your instructor would have some expired maps that you could either have or borrow.

 

Another option if you are a PC user, is to purchase AirNav VFR with the appropriate map pack(s). I only currently need South East Australia, so a subscription to that map pack costs me $50 per six months, which is less than I would pay for all the maps included in the pack (all VFR maps for SE / Aust. including PCA). One of the other advantages is that I can perform some of the planning activities within the software and print the applicable map sections for each specific Nav, with track and notes on it. (There is of course, the up-front software license cost, so that has to be factored into your decision too).

 

I don't think anyone has mentioned PCA yet. Planning Chart Australia shows essentially which WAC charts cover what parts of Australia, VHF radio coverage areas, ARFOR boundaries, Flightwatch boundaries, AERIS frequencies, Waypoints and Aerodromes (not all of them) and some other info.

 

-------------

 

You may well be able to turn pages in a closed cockpit, but I've tried it in my open cockpit and it is pretty marginal even if there's no turbulence. If there's moderate turbulence, it is impossible. I therefore like to condense my plan into:-

 

• A flight segment running plan / log which is on my knee board. I can update it in flight and make notes of aircraft callsigns or other pertinent information, as a memory aid. I've designed my own plan sheet, and have been making refinements based on actual usage in flight.
   
   
  
• An A4 clear plastic map pouch (waterproof):-
   
  Maps on one side.
   
   
  
• DAPs and aerodrome info (some of which is duplicated on my running plan) on the back.
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Each person has to work out what works well for them. Fo me, this meant trying a few different concepts in practice to arrive at the above, which works well for me.

 

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

 

 

[Mazda]

WACs don't have a 6 month currency, they are issued as required, there might be years between issues.