Contrary turns and flight planning!!

[Andy1990]

Hey all, Just hoping I could get some help with some questions I have.

 

1-When doing the flight plan, If I plan to be at my destination 10 minutes before end of light but discover for some reason for eg weather, I cant land there. I'm obviously now in a serious situation. Does the law say that I have to factor in enough time to get to an alternate destination with still 10 minutes before end of light, or just the destination I was originally planning on? Does it all just come down to good planning and airmanship not to be caught in this situation?

 

2-The law states that no turns contrary to the circuit until 500 feet above the 'highest circuit in use'. How do I find out at that time what the highest circuit in use is? In case there are aircraft using the circuit 1500 ft AGL?

 

Thanks guys I appreciate any feedback

 

Safe flying!!!! Andy

 

 

[rage83]

Not too sure on the flight planning one. I was under the impression that it was just the destination but it does make sense to factor in a diversion if need be.

 

As for the contrary turns. I was trained basically not before 2000' I guess the easy way to find out what cct heights are in use is ask use ur radio.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

 

[BigPete]

I would not advise planning to arrive at an unfamiliar airport 10 minutes before last light for the following reasons:

 

1. If the weather is marginal - there could be delays or you will be unable to land,

 

2. If lots of cloud - visibilitiy may be well less than "Last Light"

 

3. It is a popular time to fly just before last light, circuit might be very busy,

 

4. What if there has been and incident and the runway is unusable.

 

There are probably many more factors to consider. (like headwinds, etc etc)

 

regards

 

 

[sseeker]

Hey all, Just hoping I could get some help with some questions I have. 1-When doing the flight plan, If I plan to be at my destination 10 minutes before end of light but discover for some reason for eg weather, I cant land there. I'm obviously now in a serious situation. Does the law say that I have to factor in enough time to get to an alternate destination with still 10 minutes before end of light, or just the destination I was originally planning on? Does it all just come down to good planning and airmanship not to be caught in this situation?

 

2-The law states that no turns contrary to the circuit until 500 feet above the 'highest circuit in use'. How do I find out at that time what the highest circuit in use is? In case there are aircraft using the circuit 1500 ft AGL?

 

Thanks guys I appreciate any feedback

 

Safe flying!!!! Andy

1. I'm not an instructor so don't hold me to what I say, I recommend contacting your instructor for a more accurate response. If this is the case and you're unable to land there I'm pretty sure you have a 30 minute allowance to get there, divert or perform a precautionary search and landing.

 

2. Aerodrome that have a max circuit of 1500' will usually have RPT aircraft, you can find this out in the ERSA and even if RPT aircraft aren't in the circuit at the time, it's always safe to overly at 2000ft AGL.

 

I agree with what Peter said, it's safer to not plan that way

 

-Andrew

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Andy;

 

Legally, if you are VFR, you have to be on the ground 10 minutes before last light. Full Stop. There's no "unless" clauses.

 

If you plan to arrive at an areodrome at that time, then you had better understand the areodrome, circuit procedures, likely traffic, terminal area weather and winds enroute pretty well. It does not take much of an increase in head wind to extend your flight time. If any of these are in any doubt, then the plan would be ill considered for reasons already posted by BigPete.

 

I'd recommend that the alternate be reachable before last light to avoid the possibility of needing to do a precautionary search and off-field landing if everything does not go to plan.

 

How many times have I obtained a forecast that says 20kn wind only to find that it is actually 30kn or more. Quite a few! Local weather can be quite different to Area Forecast, and TAF only gives you wind on the ground.

 

Even flying locally, I have encountered a situation where I was flying at the end of the day and the wind below my altitude increased. As I descended to the circuit I discovered that I had a 30kn head wind on final, whereas it had only been 15kn at the altitude I was flying. I also had another aircraft join downwind just ahead of me, so I had to extend downwind. That added another 4 minutes to my landing time.

 

Always plan for some delay in landing, whether it be because you decide to go-around, or because of other traffic.

 

Realise that every time you remove contingencies or simply don't allow for them, you are increasing risk.

 

 

[Andy1990]

Thankyou all!! I only joined the site last night and very glad and I wont be making poor plans that will get me in risky situations!! :)

 

 

[Admin]

Andy, welcome again to the site...have a read of this experience of getting caught out just before end of light - it is easy to get caught out even if you do have a little time left before the defined last light:

 

A great trip, a lesson learnt and experience gained - Recreational Flying

 

 

[Andy1990]

Wow! Before reading some of the stories on here I wouldnt have placed so much emphasis on some things like last light and the affect of cloud. Good story, admitting mistakes, learning a lesson and posting it on here teaches us all a lesson!

 

 

[Mazda]

Hi Andy, your interpretation of the intention re last light is correct. You must PLAN to be on the ground 10 mins before last light. By law you do not have to be on the ground 10 mins before last light.

 

However, if a circuit takes about 6 minutes or so, that 10 min buffer only gives you one go around. There are also alternate minima criteria based on forecasts.

 

Having said that, having your own personal limit above the regulations is a good idea. Perhaps your own personal minima might be to allow sufficient time for a diversion. I wouldn't like to plan to arrive only 10 mins before last light unless it was a short flight on a sparkling clear CAVOK day, or if I had a current night VFR or instrument rating. It would pay to give yourself a bit more time so you are not caught out.

 

On the circuit entry, the ruling states that IF you choose to overfly, it should be 500 ft above the ACTIVE circuit. So if you are flying to a country strip with no RFDS, RPT or high performance aircraft, you can overfly 500' above circuit height. Even if the airport has RPT etc, you can still overfly at 500' above your circuit height if there are no high performance aircraft at the time. You'll know that from looking and listening. Look for high performance traffic in the high circuit, and listen out for any radio calls. RPT pilots make mistakes too, don't assume they will be on frequency so do look out. If unsure, you can overfly 1000' above, but remember a quick descent at low power settings isn't that great for the engine.

 

Remember too that you don't NEED to overfly either. If you can establish the circuit direction in use or you have a good indication of wind (eg AWIS, local smoke etc), you can join directly on crosswind, downwind, base, final etc. If you are not sure though, do fly over and check the windsock.