How do you juggle nav paperwork?

[Guest burbles1]

Just finished my third dual nav after moving schools and restarting navexs, and am still stressing out trying to juggle maps, flight plan and ERSA as well as keeping a heading and sorting out departure/inbound calls.

 

Does anyone have a good method to summarise all relevant info and reduce the need to look for the right map without getting distracted?

 

I keep the ERSA behind the copilot's seat and have the relevant airfield pages tagged, but this is a distraction to get out when approaching an airfield.

 

Have summarised airfield frequencies down the side of the flight plan, ARFOR at the top and last light down the bottom, so the plan's getting pretty crowded. But does anyone transfer info from ERSA onto maps and the flight plan - or photocopy relevant pages and just put those with the flight plan?

 

 

[flightygirl]

hey count me in on that! ive just started nav training and its just a nightmare! im all over the place. it seems like a huge juggling act! i know im early in but any advice is good as far as im concerned.

 

 

[sfGnome]

...and am still stressing out trying to juggle maps, flight plan and ERSA as well as keeping a heading and sorting out departure/inbound calls.Does anyone have a good method to summarise all relevant info and reduce the need to look for the right map without getting distracted?

What worked for me was a knee board from the Rec Flying shop. My instructor reckoned that they are a waste of time, but for the first couple of navs where I did things his way (as you would!), I had paper going everywhere. On the kneeboard, I keep the flight plan on the centre clip with printouts of the ERSA pages for all the airstrips that I could possibly get near (with things like CTAF, elevation, etc highlighted) sitting underneath. General notes in the clear pocket on the right. The relevant map sits folded on top of the whole shebang, or is slid off between my right leg and the centre console when I want to read the plan, and the whizz-wheel and other toys sit in the door pocket. Easy-as!

Now all I need is two right hands so that I can fly the plane and write at the same time!

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Yeah, I bought a kneeboard too (a souvenir of NatFly) but after two navs found that it was too bulky. I've taken out the clipboard and been using only that - VNC clipped underneath and flight plan on top, and it's worked out much easier to handle. I can slip it into the side pocket when approaching an airfield.

 

Next nav, I'll experiment with velcro tabs - I have stuck velcro onto a pacer pencil and I have a digital clock that I've plastered with velcro on the back. The idea is to stick these onto the top of the dash panel of the Jab so I don't muck around trying to grab these from my pocket.

 

 

[dazza 38]

For me, i write as much information as i can, on the map, frequencys, runway headings ,from ERSA etc.With the wind directions i put on the map, with a direction and arrow.Some people like to add most info on the flight log. It is up to the individual i guess.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I clip the flight plan and fuel log to a kneepad, plus photocopies of any relevant airfield maps from ERSA in the order I'm likely to need them. On each map I write the airfield height, frequency and circuit height in large letters. For navigation close to my home airfield (Jandakot), we need to use the VTC. Outside the boundaries of the VTC, the WAC chart takes over.

 

However, following my instructor's suggestion, the WAC chart has a lot of information from the VNC transferred to it, such as the controlled airspace and frequency boundaries (use a compass and fine-line texta in the VNC colours), NDB and VOR frequencies next to their locations, 10mile circles around local airfields, and area frequencies. Any other frequencies, such as ATC, that I might forget at a critical time, are written down on the back of the flight plan.

 

Any significant peaks or other topograpical features are also marked with a texta dot. For flight planning I usually get an A3 colour photocopy of the relevant part of the VTC and WAC charts. This makes it a bit easier to manage in the cockpit. All the other stuff - ERSA, wizz-wheel etc live in the flight bag.

 

The clipboard also has a pencil attached to it with a piece of string so it won't get lost under the seat. And the pencil has notches cut in it at 10mile intervals for the WAC chart, which makes it easier to estimate distances, or calculate a 1 in 60.

 

All sounds good in theory, but the thing I could use most is somebody else to fly the plane while I try to navigate.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[GraemeK]

However, following my instructor's suggestion, the WAC chart has a lot of information from the VNC transferred to it, such as the controlled airspace and frequency boundaries (use a compass and fine-line texta in the VNC colours), NDB and VOR frequencies next to their locations, 10mile circles around local airfields, and area frequencies.

Sounds like a great idea .....

 

 

[Tomo]

I'm probably not much help here, but I'll tell you what I do.

 

Being a Drifter flyer as well, things have to be organised and simple as you can imagine when one is out in the breeze. As ERSA pages and pencils aren't recommended propeller food.

 

I use those Yellow stick it pads, write the details that will be likely to be of use on to one of them, One airfield for one pad. Write it in such a way as to be easily understood, that is fairly important. Less clutter the better.

 

Things like CTAF frequency, Bris/Melb Ctr Frq. Runway numbers, and cct directions. You should be fully briefed on local requirements before you start your trip anyway, so that shouldn't be neccessary, but If you can add it without making a mess to the simplicity it probably wouldn't hurt. Things like turning before flying over the hospital etc...

 

They work great, as I clip them on with a dog clip to the windscreen of the drifter, in order of travel, as you would imagine. In other aircraft you stick them wherever. The plastic information strip just above the head on the Jabiru works great if there is enough sticky left on them.

 

And once you finish your trip, you store them in the ERSA under the correct title, works a treat for finding airfields later on also!

 

Have the ERSA accessable (in the case of cabin). But treat it as a Planning tool, rather than on the go I reckon, that way you will keep your head out the window as much as possible, and navigating.

 

Fold maps in descending order if on a big x-country, that way you don't have to fuss with re-folding enroute.

 

I actually colour copy my maps and laminate them for the Drifter, in A4 size sections. Much easier to handle and you can write on them with a marker. (bit of metho takes it off later on) You can then stick that under your leg, when not needed. Or in some cases for Trike pilots they have a plastic bag type thing strapped to their legs. Fantastic idea I reckon, but bit hard in 3 axis aircraft!

 

When maps are not needed In the cabin I just put it in the pocket, or down beside you (left side) for something like the Jabiru. Using normal maps for that as you could imagine.

 

I always do a flight plan. I have a template made up, which makes it a really simple proccess. And use a knee board in a cabin. Being left handed and ambidextrous helps quite a lot when it comes to writing, but that is limited to only some of us I guess.

 

As long as it works for you I guess... Each person works differently. One of the most important things is map folding my instructor told me, for ease of everything in the cockpit. Nothing worse than having to unfold and refold a big map, whilst you missed your last confirmation point on the ground. And or you hit the stick, and you're now doing a 30 degree bank and going madly off course!!

 

Just for your interest, I checked out how Bert Hinkler used to do his big Navigations. He used a canvas scroll type map, marvelous idea for long direct trips. Writing pretty much everything on it also.

 

Happy flying.

 

 

[Mazda]

There are a few ways you can do it. I've never had a proper kneeboard, I've just used clipboards from newsagents, at a size to suit. You could even use contact to stick info on there that you need. Maybe home runway info, VMC info, aircraft info, whatever you think you might need.

 

You can put your plan on the front and maps inside. Either tie the pen/pencil to the board, or put it on a lanyard around your neck. I have 10 mile markers on my pencil too but don't use it too much as 10 mile markers can be estimated on a diversion.

 

You can put the maps along side you too if you run out of room.

 

Much of it is dealt with before departing. Have the maps folded so you don't have to refold in flight. You might have to turn it over, or unfold to the other side etc. They are your maps, you can fold them away from the normal folds, anywhere you like.

 

Thoroughly read the ERSA. You can draw in the direction of approach, look at the forecast wind and you'll have an idea of the most likely circuit join. I don't copy pages but you could. You could write on the circuit height, overfly height.

 

When I first started I would draw the runway layout on the back of the plan with any relevant info. It worked well, but you probably won't need to do that for too long, you'll probably just double check ERSA before approaching the airport.

 

You can write frequencies on your plan.

 

I'd keep it simple, there are enough pieces of paper without photocopying even more bits of paper which can be dropped on the floor.

 

 

[FlyBye]

Folding your map nice and small in a tri-fold config and keep turning it over may help. I use a tri-fold folder that has two clips (landscape shape) and I have the map on the left side and the flight plan on the right, you can then put copies of the airstrip details and all your other details inside the folder within easy reach. It will get easier.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

For me, it's a kneeboard with the relevant maps facing front in the first sleeve. Then facing back in the 1st sleeve and opposite that facing forward in the 2nd sleeve I have my ERSA page printouts, printed 2 pages per sheet on A4 so each ERSA page is A5 size. On top of this I use yellow highlighter to mark the most relevant lines on the ERSA pages like airfield frequency and any special procedures like right hand circuits etc . . . it's surprising how long it can take to find the line you're looking for if it's not marked.

 

During Fly-Aways with large groups I also have the Pilot/Crew/Aircraft/Callsign list facing back in the back of the 2nd sleeve, so when Aircraft X is spotted I know who I'm talking to on the chat channel.

 

FB,

 

Origami may be hard to beat in the still cabin air of a Cessna but unfortunately doesn't work too well in the open cockpit of a trike.

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[flying dog]

Burbles1,

 

I have a couple of pages I use for flight planning.

 

They were in the downloads section, but if you PM me with your e-mail I can send them to you.

 

They are basically the flight plane sheet (blank) with fuel at the bottom - as per GA format.

 

And an airport sheet where you do your enroute frequencies and airport layouts.

 

You will need word or open office to use them.

 

 

[HEON]

Big help is to cover your chart with clear contact. Write all information you need on it with a fine tip permanent pen available in a number of colours (the type metho will wipe of when not needed anymore). Can always find room on chart away from your track for the in flight maths etc. Add freq change points and diagram of the airfields as required with CTAF and heights. Only then have one bit of paper. Works in Drifter also as it has some "body" and will not blow around as much.

 

For longer trips I use AirNav VFR and print route on A4 pages (from WAC's)...also waypoint details and often ERC(L)'s and airfield diagrams (use old loose leaf ERSA after I check the detail against a new one)and put in order in Office Works type soft plastic folder with the clear plastic sleeves. The type with the ring spine so you can leave it open on correct map. Only need one item to tell all.

 

Of course you need all current documentation accessible but returned last week from 2400nm trip and never needed to refer to my flight bag contents.

 

 

[Yenn]

I go along with what has already been said and add that I like to colour copy the route onto separate pages so that track is up and I can put aside a page as I go onto the next. No folding needed. I had a problem with clear contact in the past when the red dyes bled int the glue. Mad it a bit hard to read in places. Get every bit of info you can written down, near where it applies to on your maps, before you launch and most importantly have fun.

 

 

[Owi]

I have to say, these are all pretty good tips, guys. Thanks.

 

To let you in on a secret - I'm one of those suckers who bought an iPad (only after picking it up and then realising what great potential it has to be a very useful tool). Since then I've downloaded all the aviation material I could find, including PDF versions of the ERSA, POH's, Flight Guides, User guides for the GPS and other avionics and stored them on it. Them and a few apps that I'm still trying to figure out whether they're any good or not. A challenge is working out how best to organise them so that the parts I want/need are easily and quickly accessed.

 

Also, I am just putting the finishing touches to my second prototype home-made dual purpose kneeboard - to hold iPad and the standard papers. I'm going to test it's usefulness on my flightsim - safer that way.

 

So, these tips are all going a long way towards giving me a better idea as to how the seasoned among us handle their charts. Thanks again.

 

Smooth skies,

 

 

[sseeker]

...Outside the boundaries of the VTC, the WAC chart takes over.

However, following my instructor's suggestion, the WAC chart has a lot of information from the VNC transferred to it, such as the controlled airspace and frequency boundaries (use a compass and fine-line texta in the VNC colours), NDB and VOR frequencies next to their locations, 10mile circles around local airfields, and area frequencies. Any other frequencies, such as ATC, that I might forget at a critical time, are written down on the back of the flight plan. ...

Hi,

 

Intersting that you use the WAC in the cockpit. I would've thought the next best thing from the VTC would be the VNC? Do you find the WAC more useful?

 

-Andrew

 

A challenge is working out how best to organise them so that the parts I want/need are easily and quickly accessed.[/Quote]Upgrade the iPad to version 4.0 (if it isn't already) you can then sort your applications into categories by pressing and holding one application until the icons begin to 'shake' - you can then move the icons into categories by dragging one application on top of another, this will create a category and you can rename it and add more applications to it.

 

I hope that's easy to understand! :S

 

-Andrew

 

EDIT: Attached a screenshot from my iPhone so you can see what it's like.

 

[eightyknots]

My flight instructor told me that I will be needing a kneeboard but she doesn't like any of the ones available in either Australia or New Zealand because they are generally too large. She imports batches of small kneeboards from North America suitable for two pilots in a small cabin.

 

As soon as the next batch arrives (probably next month), and I can see what brand they are, I will let you know some more details.

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi 80kts, The ones from GeeBees shop at Essendon Airport are small (A5) and I find them fine in a Texan & Gazelle, neither cockpit being very large.....

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

My flight instructor told me that I will be needing a kneeboard but she doesn't like any of the ones available in either Australia or New Zealand because they are generally too large. She imports batches of small kneeboards from North America suitable for two pilots in a small cabin. As soon as the next batch arrives (probably next month), and I can see what brand they are, I will let you know some more details.

Not everybody likes kneeboards. IMHO you have to sort out what works for you by trying a few different things.

 

I tried several configurations during my Navs, but am constrained by being in an open cockpit, so has to be minimal, easily handled and tethered, so it cannot go through the prop. I settled on a clear A4 heavy plastic sealable map case (flexible), in which I can place composite of maps on the front, DAPs and other useful info on the back. Then I use a kneeboard with a flight plan form in which I fill in the route, frequencies, altitudes, headings, expected times, fuel etc. There's also space for notes so I can jot running info, other aircraft call-signs etc..

 

Weather and Notam printouts go in my jacket pocket, for reference on the ground. Any info that may be needed in the air is transferred to either the flight plan, the DAPs or onto the map. If I will need to change the maps enroute, it will be on the ground and I slip them inside the visible maps, so it makes them easy to carry in one place and simply pull out and then slide them over the visible ones.

 

I've seen people who write all their info on the map and place it in a clear pocket on a Bar Mit. I've also seen similar markup but placed on a kneeboard.

 

I tried two different kneeboards, but settled on an A5 size clipboard based one. A larger one that had folding covers was unsatisfactory as when open, the wind would catch it and flip it closed again.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Andrew

 

Hi,Intersting that you use the WAC in the cockpit. I would've thought the next best thing from the VTC would be the VNC? Do you find the WAC more useful?

 

-Andrew

The VNC is certainly easier on the eyes being twice the scale of the WAC, but the WAC has more topographical detail. Also, the VNC is only available for a few places, whereas the WAC covers the country, so for long navs you don't have much choice.

 

Making a composite map takes a bit of time initially, but you end up with a lot of useful information in one place. The down side is that reading fine detail on a small scale map in an unsteady cockpit is not easy.

 

I'm still working on that one!

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Bryon]

My flight instructor told me that I will be needing a kneeboard but she doesn't like any of the ones available in either Australia or New Zealand because they are generally too large. She imports batches of small kneeboards from North America suitable for two pilots in a small cabin. As soon as the next batch arrives (probably next month), and I can see what brand they are, I will let you know some more details.

I am just off OS where I have seen an A5 kneeboard with fold forward clear pockets which I want to have a look at.

 

I will let you know what it is like when I get back

 

Cheers

 

Bryon

 

 

[eightyknots]

Thanks Davidh10 and Bryon.

 

 

[sfGnome]

My flight instructor told me that I will be needing a kneeboard but she doesn't like any of the ones available in either Australia or New Zealand because they are generally too large. She imports batches of small kneeboards from North America suitable for two pilots in a small cabin.

I used to be quite happy with the size of my knee board until I recently flew a Jab LSA where the throttle was between my legs and I found that I couldn't reach the throttle any more. For the cruise section I just reached over to the lever on the right hand seat and then took the knee board off prior to landing, but I'm going to have to find a better way if I'm going to keep flying that plane.

 

 

[johndl]

I used to be quite happy with the size of my knee board until I recently flew a Jab LSA where the throttle was between my legs and I found that I couldn't reach the throttle any more. For the cruise section I just reached over to the lever on the right hand seat and then took the knee board off prior to landing, but I'm going to have to find a better way if I'm going to keep flying that plane.

I usually fly the Jab LSA also - I was wondering how to get around the problem of having the throttle between the legs - not at the Nav stage yet thoughi_dunno

 

 

[Bryon]

I usually fly the Jab LSA also - I was wondering how to get around the problem of having the throttle between the legs - not at the Nav stage yet thoughi_dunno

What I want to know is.......who in their right mind would put a throttle between their legs in the first place??????? :confused: