Back to mustering

[Planechaser]

Hi all,

 

I am on a sheep station near Broken Hill, and stumbled across the site while searching for information on a plane for mustering/spotting stock. I trained in Pipers and then did the rest of my flying in Cesna 172's, (old ones!!) mustering and spotting stock.

 

We have just upgraded our land area by about four times,(!!) so after 3 years of no flying,(where does the time go!) it's time to get back in the saddle.

 

I look forward to talking with you, and gaining plenty of usefull information.

 

BTW, it's between a Savanah and a 701 at the moment. More Savanah's on the market, but 701 has the overseas rep as a bush plane....

 

Please feel free to enlighten me.

 

Cheers,

 

Hamish

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Planechaser;

 

Had you considered a weight shift aircraft. Quite a few farmers use them for mustering and other farm activities. Often the slower wings are used for such activities as that provides for really short take-off and landing performance. I saw someone herding sheep with one recently. It depends too on just how large an area you want to cover.

 

If you aren't familiar with them, the Airborne web site is a good place to start.

 

 

[NWpilot]

G"day Hamish, welcome to the site, I grew up on some large cattle stations in NW QLD, we used to use our Cessna 172, but that was because we travelled between properties as well. it worked well but it would have been better to have a slower A/C. I like the look of the Highlander made by alpine, they look like they would be a good bush plane, but i have not had any experience with them or heard much about them. If i had my RAAus certificate back then, i proberly would have looked at something like the 912 Trike, but because of the distances and the heat it would have been a bit bumpy and slow to get to the back country (1.2million acres) Good luck with what ever you decide and i am sure you will get all the info you require from this site, there are some pretty knowledgable people on here.

 

Cheers,

 

 

[Russ]

Gyro....................enough said:big_grin:

 

 

[Planechaser]

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

Have mustered on the ground with a gyro and there are a few around.......but I'm still a chicken when it comes to them!!

 

Very seriously looked at a 912 airborn for use at home, (90,000 acres) but the new place is 460,000 acres, and most blokes with planes at this size or bigger use cessna 172's. Still an option, but I would need convincing.

 

If I could buy new, which is to say, if I could spend $100,000, not $50,000, the Hornet is a real contender, but the second hand market is a little quiet!

 

Will keep at it and keep you posted; need an outcome within 6 months.

 

Thanks again,

 

Hamish

 

 

[Planechaser]

Cheers David,

 

Will check it out.

 

 

[JG3]

Hi all,More Savanah's on the market, but 701 has the overseas rep as a bush plane....

Hamish

The Savannah is an even better bush plane than the 701.

 

Hans (701) and I (Savannah) each have about 800hrs flying and comparing these aircraft.

 

See results at StolSpeed Aerodynamics - Performance Enhancement for Light Aircraft

 

JG

 

 

[HEON]

Have you thought of a Fisher Mk1 Rotax 912 Drifter made in Lismore?

 

Cruise 65kt at 13L/hr...65+Lfuel (unleaded)...very short landing and take of...probably best view out side than anything else...UNDER $60000 new

 

 

[brilin_air]

How about a Gazelle, they are cheap, slow and you can fly them with the doors off for a great view.

 

Brian

 

 

[bones]

If your serious about serious mustering the only machine you should be looking at is a gyro.

 

This is not a blind one eyed thing, eg. i muster for a lot of people, but i have cattle scattered everywhere so it is legal, and on one of the places there is a compnay owned R22 sitting in the shed and does not get used while i can do it, enough said?

 

The gyro can and will run rings around a R22 in the right situations, we proved it and the R22 pilot was seriously ****ed off, the gyro will out manuveouer(spelling) a help up to 50kts, then the speed of the helo takes over, until then gyro is king in the right hands.

 

why else do we get the calls for work before the helo, and price is only one of the reasons.

 

 

[bones]

And Wayne fisher has a flaps option to really shorten up the landing distance. There aint no better Viz than that in a Drifter. Load of fun to fly as well.David

Obviously you never seen a proper muster gyro

 

 

[bones]

Have mustered on the ground with a gyro and there are a few around.......but I'm still a chicken when it comes to them!!Hamish

Hamish have you ever been up in one? i believe you will change you mind when you under the huge operating envelope these machines(step up right) have for this job, mate if you send me a pm i will come down(if your not too far away) and show you how good they are.

 

 

[Tomo]

When you see the Gyro's go in the hands of someone that no doubt knows how to handle them, they are unreal. I still haven't got the nerv to try one on yet, but I will nonetheless do it sometime, I figure they'd be similar in safety to a chopper with the rotor... (ever worked on a R22 rotor head? not much there!!)

 

The issue with choppers (R22) is the power, believe it or not but on a hot day, a light wind and a heap of thermals. They get hammered, and pilots soon realize they run out of power. Though a good muster pilot shouldn't have to get to radical! They are great though, but obviously just limited in some areas.

 

The new turbine Alpine chopper is a great upgrade for stations, can run on diesel, and a lot more power than the 22, and fast if you need it!

 

Anyway!

 

I'd have to support the Savannah, they are an easy aircraft to fly, reasonably powerful, and with big tundra tires can land on nearly anything. Drifter is fun too, but one thing with them is it's hard to carry supplies from one place to another.

 

Friends property, they still just get in a couple of choppers, and or use the Cessna's.

 

Ps. Bones, have you read the book on "Ken Wallis"? A gyro guru, he designed and built them way on way back. Actually one of his gyro's was used in a James Bond film. Extremely interesting book, he also achieved some height records in them I believe (well back then). And the military used them for Reconnaissance at one point.

 

 

[HEON]

Storage on/in a Drifter?

 

I have thought on this after taking mine up to Monto for the fly in.

 

IF you fly alone (mustering?): remove rear seat and make/have made box with lid attached to rear seat base forward to wing main post behind pilot. Height and width optional.

 

On my W&B I could put 95-98kg there!

 

Probably easy to secure dog,sheep,heffer,child etc in it!

 

Easy to wash out and could include rifle storage to have a shot at wild life from 10000ft without room for CASA rep (don't hit the tyre)...thinking of THAT joke!

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Bones I hope John (Wigg) never reads this thread as he would be up there with cash in hand , or adding to your sales pitch for the gyro's he is bugging the heck every chance he gets to try one out. He has some great ideas for the use of them. Sue

 

 

[Planechaser]

Now the thread is warming up...!

 

Haven't seriously looked at a Gazelle, and as to others, there is something about metal frame/body that feels reasuring. I know that some of the best planes ever built were flying bonfires looking for a match(wood and cloth) but there you go...

 

I had all but ruled the foxbat out,(unsure if they would stand up to rough treatment) untill a bloke last night told me of a fella using one for station work. 600 hours in and he is in love with it, and looking to trade it at 1000 for another new one.

 

Gyros. Sorry Bones, but I just don't trust myself!! I know you need to be 110% when flying, but I have the feeling you have to be 130% when flying Gyros??!!

 

 

[Planechaser]

I justify this lilly livered attitude to Gyros by telling myself that I will be using aircraft to spot stock( and dogs) and run waters, and will be avoiding the turning and burning of actually "mustering" the stock.......but deep down I still think I don't trust myself to be on, around and over the ball 100% of the time that I'm in the air. Fixed wings are just as dangerous if you are down there mixing it with the stock, but I'll try to avoid that, even though that's where the real fun is!!

 

Wings want to fly, and I know that main rotors are essentially(sp?) a wing, essentialy isn't actually.....

 

 

[bones]

Gyros. Sorry Bones, but I just don't trust myself!! I know you need to be 110% when flying, but I have the feeling you have to be 130% when flying Gyros??!!

Honestly they are easier to fly than the fw in thermals and rough conditions ect, as they dont get thrown around as much.

 

Anyway got to get my stuff ready heading of in a week for another 6 weeks of play time or and did i mention it is still freezing over there:ah_oh:

 

What ever your choice of flying is, enjoy it, do it safe and have fun, i enjoy being around all types of flying stuff, sitting and hangar talking with a couple of lames up here is my favourite type of time wasting. Hope you find what your looking for Plane, i wasnt doing a sales pitch, it was just my opinion nothing more nothing less.

 

Tommo i be through your neck of the woods in about 5 weeks to bring the new one home, might look you up, and if your up to it, cut some holes in the sky, then oyu know what im talking about

 

 

[Tomo]

Tommo i be through your neck of the woods in about 5 weeks to bring the new one home, might look you up, and if your up to it, cut some holes in the sky, then oyu know what im talking about

That'd be sweet.

 

 

[farri]

Hi all, it's between a Savanah and a 701 at the moment. More Savanah's on the market, but 701 has the overseas rep as a bush plane....Please feel free to enlighten me.

Cheers,Hamish

You gyro guys have realy got me thinking,wasn`t aware of the mustering bit,it may be that you are correct,Gyro versus fixed wing.

 

Between fixed wing.........I`ve got quite a few hrs in the 701 with Rotax 912,built and owned by a student of mine,housed here on the property and I originaly test flew it for him.

 

The 701......In short......Excellent stall characteristics and can be maneuvered qite tightly,other than the rattling of the flat,straight pannles,a good easy machine to fly but can`t be maneuvered as tightly and as fast as the wire braced, Maxair Drifter,(don`t know about the Fisher Drifter as I havn`t flown one).

 

Of course the performance of the Drifter also depends on the power plant,the weight the AC has to carry, the atmospheric conditions the AC is being used in and most of all,the pilot it`s being flown by.

 

Bottom line....... For long distance travel...The 701.......For mustering,I would always pick the Drifter.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Hi Hamish

 

You could buy a really nice Auster for $40k and enjoy the 26 knot stall speed with STOL capability as well as the increased load capacity this would give you (the 2009 Auster fly-in was at Broken Hill).

 

If you want to go RA because of the maintenance advantage I think the Lightwing is a rugged little aircraft that will put up with a lot of bouncing around both on the ground and in the air. How open is your country? Gidgee, mulga, grasses? Prepared strips or station tracks?

 

Sounds like a great place to be!

 

kaz

 

 

[bones]

You gyro guys have realy got me thinking,wasn`t aware of the mustering bit,it may be that you are correct,Gyro versus fixed wing.Frank.

There is mustering and there is mustering, it all depends on your interpretation of it :big_grin:

 

 

[Planechaser]

Hi Kaz, probably heading down the RA line. I've done the figures on VH, and it doesn't stack up, unless you really need the extra space/weight. She's all fairly open country; couple of prepared strips and then probably just grade out a few hundred meters of track here and there, near waters and so on. Not just enough acres for aircraft, but enough acres for a grader and loader as well!

 

Have got to say Bones, the biggest buzz to date is still running three mustering teams over two paddocks and keeping stock moving in the third. Like playing chess while on a rollercoaster:big_grin:!!

 

Mustering makes x-country nav work feel like the daily grind; I could only imagin it in a Gyro...!

 

Don't kid yourself about the storch David; no fixed wing can groove like that..

 

 

[jeffry_white]

Savannah, fit it our with dual tanks (144 litres) and muster happily all day

 

 

[Russ]

The agility of a gyro has long been proven, so has it's ability to handle cr*p conditions.

 

from the early 70's to now, is like comparing chalk to cheese. Buyers now have the options of buying "turn key" gyros ( 2 seaters especially ) that will happily cruise all day at 80............100 kts.

 

generally single seaters are more for tossing around flying, and cost a lot less.

 

Turn key singles from around $60k

 

..........2 seaters from around $ 80K

 

2nd hand machines are sourced for a lot less $$$$$$$$

 

The legal ability to "self maintain" is another point that folks like. "Hub bars" however must be tested for possible signs of defect before that defect actually presents itself.

 

This is based on flying hrs per machine, and what machine type.

 

The "wing" ( rotor blades ) the current price is around $3500 to completely replace them, fortunately they are "timeless" and only get changed out if you damage them.

 

Have been involved in gyros from the early 70's, in those days and for many yrs later, there were absolutely no design rules to adhere to, no 2 seat trainers......zip..

 

We were bending gyros left right and centre ( self taught piloting ).......nightmare stuff. That is all behind us now.......design perameters, trainers, are all proven now, sourcing an instructor to get professional tuition is generally not a problem. The choice of machine types has never been better.

 

"Rotax's" are in the main the most popular engine, subaru, another popular choice.

 

If ever you get the chance to meet up with a 2 seater owner, ask him to take you for a lap or 2, you won't regret it...........you will be more "gyro savy" .....mayb e a convert.......as many have been.

 

2011 at your annual RAA easter get together, expect to see 20....30 gyros there, 2 seaters will abound, so grab the oportunity to go for a lap.

 

2009.......5 gyros circumnavigated australia unassisted, guys are flying coast to coast now, unassisted. Yes gyros have advanced light yrs from those bad yrs 70.....80's.

 

Educating folks to the "now gyro world"....is happining, those dark yrs is still in the minds of some folks tho............pity.

 

See you at the 2011 get together...................:big_grin:

 

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