Buying GA

[Spriteah]

Well I've decided to purchase a GA Aircraft from the USA.

 

Im curious what others think. My reasoning is I want a 4 seater, advance my skills, and they are cheap, although I will be purchasing with several others.

 

Jim

 

 

[johndl]

Jim, what are you buying? What's the cost etc?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Use a reputable import broker.

 

 

[facthunter]

Going GA. aircraft purchase.

 

Jim, If this goes wrong It could be a nightmare for you. While the planes are sometimes cheap to purchase, some are old and ALL costs are related to the NEW price of the aircraft. (Like when you buy a BMW etc which costs xyz dollars new, don't expect the maintenance to be the same as a Holden/Falcon).

 

Wherever you purchase the plane, you MUST have it inspected by someone you can trust who is arm's distance from the sale, and who is totally familiar with the Make and Model. You MUST have ALL documentation for airframe engine and propeller. repairs and times. The environment it has operated in is important too.

 

The potential for 100LL to NOT be available and it's effect on the operation of your intending purchase should be taken into account... Nev

 

 

[Tomo]

My part time boss regularly flies Cessna Caravans from the US. I've been offered co-pilot position next time.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Its not a bad idea, imo, but the key is to find a company, that do this sort of thing for a living.They are out there.I would rather use a aussie company, that goes over to the states.Than a US based company.Nothing against US companies or anything, just because the aussie companies, know what and how to jump through the hoops here in Australia and know how to get the A/C onto our register.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

My part time boss regularly flies Cessna Caravans from the US. I've been offered co-pilot position next time.

go for it Tomo i've always wanted to do that trip, i missed out on taking a nomad across back in the seventies. Did your Boss bring Ramblers yellow tweety bird across?

 

 

[Mazda]

They key is to watch the dollar like a hawk. If you buy when the Aussie dollar is high and sell in US$ when the Aussie dollar falls, you could do very well.

 

 

[old man emu]

The company I work for has been involved in receiving four or five used aircraft from the US in the past year, as well as several others over the past few years I have been with them.

 

As with all aircraft purchases, a pre-purcahse inspection by someone trustworthy is absolutely essential. If you are going to spend upwards of $50,000 on purchasing an aircraft in the US, plus the freight costs to get it here, the $2-3000 you'll spend on sending someone from here to go over your prospective purchase will, in most cases, be recouped in savings made in putting a sick airframe back in good order.

 

Secondly, you must engage someone over there who knows how to pack a dismantled aircraft into a seatainer. We have been lucky so far with teh ones we are dealing with, but just this month a Navion arrived in Sydney from the US and it has been destroyed in transit.

 

The third thing you have to do is engage someone here in Australia who is experienced in putting aircraft on the Australian Register. It's not a matter of whipping the aircraft out of the box; slapping on the wings and things and taking off into the wide blue yonder. If you are lucky, it will take two to three weeks from float to fly. And don't forget the costs involved in that work. A straightforward assembly and Certificate of Airworthiness for a new aircraft, straight from the factory, will cost around $5000 in labour and documentation.

 

At the moment the price of used aircraft in the US is low, but you still have to factor in all these other costs. Still, there's no other way of getting your hands on a four seater in good nick.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[Steve L]

My part time boss regularly flies Cessna Caravans from the US. I've been offered co-pilot position next time.

I would jump at it Tomo thats a trip I have thought about doing in a J430. do you know what route he takes?

 

 

[Tomo]

I would jump at it Tomo thats a trip I have thought about doing in a J430. do you know what route he takes?

Mmm not hundred percent sure, though there are 3, 14hr (or thereabouts) non stop sections. You would have to have quite a lot of fuel on board for a J430.

 

He puts a bladder in the back with for high flow filling.

 

Couldn't help you with that Ozzie, I haven't really kept track of what he brings over until recently.

 

 

[old man emu]

there are 3, 14hr (or thereabouts) non stop sections. He puts a bladder in the back with for high flow filling.

I'm glad to hear that. My bladder has trouble lasting 2 hours, less in cold weather.

 

OME

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

well we just brought in a couple of planes in a container...you really have to be careful of a lot of things (log book histories being just one thing), even after finding the right aircraft, deciding how to bring it in, whether you fly or containerise...we also just had a plane flown in and that way was a lot easier and as cost affective as packing into a container (and quicker to get on the register). Of course there are a lot of planes that just dont have the legs to fly (despite fuel bladders) To fly you a subject to some really stringent regulations and I've got an excellent pilot who has yet to join the Hennesey and Clamback school of ocean swimming.....:big_grin:

 

 

[Spin]

and I've got an excellent pilot who has yet to join the Hennesey and Clamback school of ocean swimming.....:big_grin:

Those blokes have got bigger ones than me, I've done some ferry flying (as a kind of inflight relief - not type rated) but that was on aircraft that were a known quantity, in fact the pilot was also a LAME and had done the maintainance for the last 1000 hours or so. That was ok in my books, but to take on a largely unknown aircraft and set off across the sea -

 

 

[facthunter]

Buying/ Ferrying.

 

The prices are cheap and they are not doing it well in the USA at the moment. Don't forget that a lot of these planes have been sitting around as aerodrome flotsam while the owners decide the inevitable. (that they must quit the scene).

 

Flying 3 x 13 hours across the Pacific. These guys do not necessarily have big Balls. They might have small brains. Most of the non-arrivals are due to engine failure and often due to LOW OIL quantity. You need an oil transfer system. Some rely on electric fuel pumps for transfer of fuel. Electric failure NO FUEL TRANSFER.

 

A turbine powered A/C would be an acceptable risk, but the above-mentioned trip in a single engined piston that hasn't had a recent extensive inspection, rebuild and shake-down is folly for sure. High wing fixed gear planes rarely avoid going under the waves on landing. In any case alighting on the open ocean should not be contemplated lightly.

 

The local market values are related to the american prices and you can get the benefit without going overseas. New Zealand might be contemplated and a flight from there via Norfolk island, Lord Howe, not so dramatic. Nev

 

 

[Tomo]

Flying a single piston over would certainly be a risk and a half, and I don't think you'd ever get me doing that.

 

However, a turbine Caravan in good order should hold up quite well, the PT6 is a remarkably reliable turbine also. And a pilot being a LAME specializing in them. Though if something goes quiet, it's not a lot a LAME can do in the air! A lot of the times they are brand new from the factory.

 

Would have got to go about 6 months ago, but parents were a little apprehensive of it then!

 

You plan the route to take you over the shipping routes, and try and pick the time of yr when they are out.

 

 

[Guest check-in]

Sprite , if you only want 4 seats I gather you are looking in the C172/Cherokee range? Ferrying across the Pacific in one of these is not a very practical proposition, though it has been done with huge fuel overloads. No room for a co-pilot, so you would be on your own. The leg from the west coast to Hawaii is about 23 hours, so as has been said, you need in-flight oiling.

 

Crating it up and sharing a container would be the better way. However, you do have to look at the costs as a percentage of the overall value of the aeroplane you are buying. Some time ago I tried to buy a Sonex privately while in the USA. The major problem was that I could not hang around to do the crating, and none of the potential sellers was interested in the hassle. The cost of freight as a percentage of the total value meant that it was simply not worth it. So, with your GA machines, $15,000 onto a 40 year old aeroplane worth only $40,000 would not make any sense, no matter how schmick it was. But $20,000 on a nice 20 year old Bonanza or Mooney could be a reasonable investment (insofar as no aeroplane is really an INVESTMENT!), and with these you are getting into a speed/range category where ferrying is possible if you do want that particular adventure.

 

Depending on where you think the aeroplane of your dreams is, I have a close friend (Yank) over there who is an A & P and also a highly-experienced ferry pilot. He usually does his own ferry-tank installations and regularly flies everything from large turbo-props own to C172s. More importantly, he is an absolute aviation enthusiast and totally honest. If you wanted someone to do an inspection and possibly the crating, he could be your man. I very much doubt he would do a piston single over the Pacific, though he does do Caravans etc.

 

PM me if interested.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

West Coast to Hawaii is seasonal from what i was told for small A/C and you are usually waiting for the right winds.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Read Aiming High by Jon Johanson for a good story about flying an RV-4 around the world - twice.

 

And yes, unless you manage to re-fuel on an aircraft carrier, there is no getting around the Hawaii - LA leg on the southern route.

 

You can go up really far north and do island hopping from Russia to Alaska.

 

 

[Steve L]

thats the route I have been looking at Bass,then down through Japan, Taiwan, Philippines on to New Guinea then Australia, although I would do it the other way round (depart oz) its less that 7000 nm OZ to Alaska with the longest stretch over water being only 283ks or 153nm, far less than the OZ to NZ trip. maybe I'll start a new thread as were going a tad off topic

 

steve

 

 

[dazza 38]

thats the route I have been looking at Bass,then down through Japan, Taiwan, Philippines on to New Guinea then Australia, although I would do it the other way round (depart oz) its less that 7000 nm OZ to Alaska with the longest stretch over water being only 283ks or 153nm, far less than the OZ to NZ trip. maybe I'll start a new thread as were going a tad off topic steve

Hi Steve, i read a story in a magazine a while back.This couple flew a turbo prop,TBM 700 from austalia via japan russia etc. Apparently is costs a fortune in airport charges and other charges i think it was custom charges or similar, it ran into the thousands of dollars.If interested i can dig up the story, it was in a flying magazine a year or so ago.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

If you can get a copy of Brian Milton's video doco from when he flew a trike around the world in 1998, you'll see he was made to pay USD 5k per landing in Japan and had to carry a Russian Navigator through the USSR.

 

Perhaps not so relevant in this case:

 

Also had to pay USD10k for SAR insurance before he was allowed to set off across the Greenland (or was it Iceland) ice cap, otherwise they were going to "detain" him.

 

 

[Spriteah]

Thanks for all the replies. It is a C172 that I will be trying to get. And in a container it will go. Still looking but hopefully soon find a good one!!!

 

Jim

 

 

[poteroo]

Our local aero club has just registered a lovely C172R, (VH-VVO), to replace it's old C172N which was written off in a forced landing. It manages 120+ KTAS and feels more like a C182 to handle. It has an absolutely full panel of Bendix-King gear, incl an IFR GPS, autopilot, dual nav/coms, audio/intercom, ADF, TXP + C. TT is 1300 hrs from new. Online here, it has cost about A$140,000 in total, with the deal done @ about 92c if I recollect.

 

It took quite a few months for the US agent to locate this aircraft - good stuff is becoming much scarcer - but the choice is still better in the US. I'm happy to give out the agents name off forum - pm me.

 

I agree with others in regards to low price aircraft. There's little point in buying something like a C152 or older C172 'cheap' in the US, because it's going to cost you the same A$20,000 - or so - to get it here and on register, as with a $100k aircraft. The only way you can justify a 'cheapie' is if someone is filling a 40ft container, and has space for 1 more - and gives you a deal.

 

happy days,

 

 

[Steve L]

thanks Dazza that would be good if you can dig it up

 

Steve