Scratch one jet at Oshkosh

[Admin]

Here are some photos that were emailed to me

 

[ATTACH]11635.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11639.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11637.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11645.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11640.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11644.vB[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]11641.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11638.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11636.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11643.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]11642.vB[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

yeah nascar team owner Jack Roush is in his late 60's or so. owns quite a few aircraft. and not the first he's busted. scratch one beech premier. some photos taken from another angle show some well equipped photographers missing the money shots and running.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Ouch, that must have hurt.I reckon some of those Photographers, would have been running very quickly.

 

 

[Tomo]

Ouch, that hurt.

 

Looks as if he stalled it, and hard!

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

What a waste...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Terrible waste of an aircraft, but, i gotta say, that pic of all the camera men doin the harrold holt is priceless.. Im holding back quite a hearty grinn..

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

or had a longer lens

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

WOW...could have been so much worse, I guess his insurance company probably doesn't like him too much at the moment...

 

 

[Admin]

Here is the ntsb preliminary report

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/aviation-news/108011-ntsb-issues-preliminary-report-roush-crash-fanhouse.html

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Groundlooped??

 

 

[Ultralights]

"the airplane appeared to overshoot the runway centerline during this turn and then level its wings momentarily before entering a slight right bank simultaneously as the nose of the airplane pitched up,

dont ya hate it when a perfectly serviceable aircraft starts doing things by itself, like overshooting turns..:ne_nau:

 

 

[Spin]

Groundlooped??

Took the words out of my mouth - I think he would have been better off keeping quiet and not looking for excuses. Shame about his injury though.

 

 

[facthunter]

comment.

 

Most of that does not add up. IF there was not a problem with the engines, (and no-one is suggesting there was). Have to wait for more data. Sad to lose an eye. Should have had an inertia reel 4 point harness in the seat so why the damage there? Don't get it. Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i think also you may find that the power was right back and they need a little time to come up when you open the taps. just sounds like a bit of power lag and dropped a wing when he lifted the nose to go around. there is also the atc recording of the approach the boys and girls in the tower saw the conflict with the other aircraft coming and asked if he wanted to go around 10 or so seconds before jack initiated it. you can find it on the EAA site.

 

 

[Spin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUzdKOEMKQ

 

ATC soundtrack combined with a poor quality video clip of the final part of the circuit. Stick with it, the meat is from about 44'. Frankly I've seen students conducting simulated engine failure in the circuit that looked more in control than that:black_eye:. I found the low level turn onto final, hammer headed at that, a bit horrifying in a fairly hot ship like a Beech Premier.

 

 

[Tomo]

Radio controllers are on the ball...

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

'bout 3 weeks behind the aircraft. not incompetence, just too much aircraft and pressure from the high arrival activity to keep up with it all. Bit of a wake up call that he ai'nt as fast as he was when younger.

 

 

[facthunter]

Bad Approach........

 

Compressed all the happenings in too short a timeframe. Bad approach, bad landing. Not enough time to stabilise anything speed, centreline, sink rate power etc. Plane is too slippery to do that and expect to get away with it. Jet engines DO take longer to speed up and one may do it quicker than the other. If you are near the stall and near the ground, then its in the lap of the gods, in those circumstances. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Nev, out of curiosity, how long do you reckon a jet like that would take to spool up and provide meaningfull power??..

 

 

[facthunter]

Time to spool up.

 

The Jt-8 was allowed 7 seconds max, or it was not serviceable. It depends on the idle settings. These can be adjusted. there are usually two, flight and ground settings.

 

If the settings are set low the engine may take longer to spool up. I don't know what these engines are like quite frankly. The point is that jets do not accelerate like pistons. Even a 3 second wait seems like an eternity if things are in the corner and one engine may respond quicker than the other. You shove the power lever forward quickly, but you may get a delayed response.

 

If they are not back at idle they respond almost instantly. Idle approaches are not normal procedure at all, and most approaches on the normal glideslope will be at 50% power, or therabouts, stabilised at 400'. Jet engines are easy to handle but this is one aspect you have to watch. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Thanx Nev, thats interesting. So is power reduced to idle in the flare? If so this would make a go around interesting.

 

 

[facthunter]

Idle on flare.

 

Yes it is right back to idle and you select reverse as QUICKLY as possible.( It's much more effective at higher speeds. The reverse thrust is selected through an interlock at the idle position. This stops inadvertent operation of reverse thrust in flight ( supposedly).

 

Going around after reverse is selected would be considered an ABNORMAL situation in the extreme, as you have to get out of reverse before you can get forward thrust (Clamshell doors or whatever) have to reposition. This again goes through the idle position interlock and is certainly not a "flick of the switch" operation..

 

It really does not pay to judge what happened even in this case , till it is all investigated, but I think it was all happening too fast due to not giving himself enough room. Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

When i was playing with the 737 sim at Darling Harbour doing touch and goes there was a at least a good 3 to 4 second lag in throttle up to power coming up. On the power gauge there is a trend line that advances in front of the real power output. that shows were the engine power will be after lag time. After the first three touch and goes as i became familiar with the lag time i pulled power off at the start of the flare and then almost immeadiately started to power up again. by the time you get the nose wheel on the ground the power was coming back up. shortened the bolt distance by heaps. From a standing start you power up till the trend line is at around 40% stop let the engines catch up then either continue to manually increase power or push the auto throttle button and the two lines will almost be on top of each other. once you get the air moving thru them and the temp comes up they will respond quickly.

 

 

[Spin]

Was sent a couple of new photographs of the crash - must say the one of the wingtip being driven into the dirt makes my blood run cold, I get the impression that a small change in trajectory could have resulted in a much worse outcome. Interesting to observe the position of the elevators and ailerons in the pre impact shots, doesn't look as though that thing was really flying anymore.

 

New underwear for the Cessna pilots?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Nice shots mate.It would have been scary for the pilots on the taxiway.