The Merits of 'Touch-and-Go's' v 'Stop-and-Go's' in Circuit Training

[poteroo]

While doing circuits recently,I was queried by an RPT F50 here as to 'what is a stop-and-go'

 

Now it's a variation on the old 'touch-and-go' which I've always found to be very useful in aircraft types where students seem to lose directional control in the late stages of the landing roll. If there's little traffic, and the runway is plenty long enough to allow both a full landing and take-off roll - I think it's a useful training approach. Comment from other instructors?

 

happy days,

 

 

[Guest Dick Gower]

Me too on teh stop-and-go Poterooo - especially training in taildraggers where it would be easy to overlook the critical part at the end of the roll-out where all of the ground loops happen.

 

 

[facthunter]

Use of FULL length of Runway.

 

In Heavies, (obviously where performance permits) I have NO objection to intersection departures.

 

In singles they normally teach use of the FULL length of the runway as a good policy. You would have a conflict there in principle, doing a stop and go.

 

Touch and go's always have an element of hazard in them and I wouldn't recommend that they be done all the time. The student must be comfortable with it and the briefing must be clear on what actions will be performed by the instructor, & under what circumstances. It can be a good tool for maintaining separation with other circuit traffic when training.

 

Notwithstanding the above, all pilots should be capable of executing a touch and go in a safe manner without assistance before their final check for the certificate. Nev

 

 

[Guest MackAgri Aviation]

Stop and Go

 

It depends on aircraft type, traffic, runway length, student ability and what you are trying to teach.

 

Aircraft type: Use S&G at all times with tailwheel aircraft (if other conditions permit). The part most students have with a tailwheel aircraft is directional control on both T/O and landing. You have not finished a tailwheel landing until the aircraft is tied down.

 

Do full stop and backtrack on short runways if traffic permits or you have the luxury of a taxiway to taxi back on.

 

T&Gs are OK if the third wheel is at the wrong end (ie. a nosewheel) provided the student is not having directional control problems (on the ground). It allows for more approaches and landings in the hour and keeps the traffic flowing.

 

But, the pilot(s) do need to ensure that the flap and trim are reset before the "Go".

 

 

[Neville75]

I've been doing stop and go's whilst practising short field takeoffs and landings, attempting to pull her up in the shortest distance. Likewise doing a short field take off as the 'go'. My instructor has me using the runway markings as pretend obstacles to stop short of. Kinda spoilt with 2km runway. Don't want to become too reliant on using too much of the strip. All other circuits have always been t & g's.

 

 

[wizzard1964]

I fly my own aircraft, (Jabiru) the engine is air cooled, therfore I don't do touch and goes..... the taxi back to take of position warms the engine again ready for full power (Glide approach, cools engine)...

 

A number of my pilot friends won't do touch ang goes for the same reason....

 

In my view a full landing teaches more... A touch and go in my jab would actually be easier... I think my landings have improved due to "full" landings in practice..

 

 

[Guest check-in]

Yep, the landing isn't over until it's parked. So stop-go is the go, whatever type.

 

On taildraggers as someone said, it's all about directional control at low speeds with the tail down. Then getting it up at the right time on the next takeoff while not departing the strip at right angles. More advanced types have other considerations, be it as basic as resetting trims and flaps, or applying lift dump, introducing then cancelling reverse etc.

 

Touch and go practice seems to be one of those pointless things we do to get the maximum number of 'landings' into the hour we are paying for, with no real thought about the benefits, or lack thereof.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

touch n goes pointless now??....wow, someone let all the flying schools know.

 

 

[Guest check-in]

I did say T & G 'seems' to be pointless. A lot of what we do in flying instruction has been handed down through the ages from World War 1 with no thought to maybe there is a better way. The only value I can see in T & G is it helps get the flare height sorted. It teaches nothing about the primary objective of landing, which is to get it stopped safely, on the centreline, and with some margin of runway remaining in case of poor braking. WW1 aeroplanes had no braking - save for a tailskid - and mostly flew from all-over fields (paddocks, basically) so were not constrained by runway widths or crosswind limits. Some flying schools are in a time warp. Geez, I love stirring up the experts.....

 

 

[facthunter]

All-Over Fields.

 

Yes they were. I flew out of Bankstown when it was an all over field, and times have changed. In some aeroplanes there are too many essential actions to get SAFELY done in the touch and go. You have usually got a flap change, retrim. Check of carb heat off, Cowl gills reposition, (If fitted) check pitch full fine, and not least check that you have full power. This is all in a compressed time frame. If all goes well the plane leaps into the sky. IF it doesn't then the other end of the runway is coming up at you, pretty quick. As for the stop and go, you can't reconcile it with the attitude of using the whole length of the runway, at all times, when taking off. Nev

 

 

[i_like_planes]

I don't understand what people are saying here? ... How can a stop and go be any more beneficial to your training?

 

 

[Tomo]

How can a stop and go be any more beneficial to your training?

Curious myself.

 

I did some stop and go's for the first time the other day, doing short field work. I didn't really feel comfortable pulling up with other aircraft in the circuit, so it wasn't for long, and if there were other aircraft behind I wouldn't do it (courtesy sake, you'd soon end up with a few enemies making aircraft go round ;) )

 

Wonder who pays for the brake pads...

 

 

[BigPete]

I think it's fair to say a T&G creates a lot wore workload in the cockpit. When I was training my instructor didn't introduce me to it until I was comfortable with the stop and go's. I don't believe my aircraft (J160c) cools down to an extent that a T&G would be asking too much of it. If anything it cools down more when taxiing back to the hanger.

 

regards

 

 

[ahlocks]

How can a stop and go be any more beneficial to your training?

Planes! Thompson!! Pay attention...:DirtDOG:

 

.... I've always found to be very useful in aircraft types where students seem to lose directional control in the late stages of the landing roll.

... takeoffs begin from rest and landings are concluded when the a/c comes to rest...this doesn't happen doing 't and g's'.

...especially training in taildraggers where it would be easy to overlook the critical part at the end of the roll-out where all of the ground loops happen.

[motzartmerv]

Yes, i spose it would be very useful for all those, csu, manual mixture, retractable, taildragger, cowl flapped ultralights out there.

 

 

[Ultralights]

are students REALLY having issues with control in the late stages or early stages of take off and landing because they do not get taught using the Stop and go method? every student i have trained has had no issues with slower speed handling, i have found with Taxiing, and the rudder/steering inputs required during a touch and go transition from coasting while retracting flap, to full power, they have already learnt the required control skills. is it REALLY an issue?

 

 

[Guest Dick Gower]

Can't agree tha T & G's only teach the flare height. How about the flare, use of power, hold-off, touchdown and a good bit of the rollout.

 

The driver behind T & G's is value for the dollar.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Every TW landing is an adventure for me, Dick... some more than others!

 

I don't know which gets my adrenalin going more -- the touch and go when the gyroscopic effect tries to take over as the throttle is opened again (especially when that swing is also down wind), or the end of the dance in a cross-wind when the last few toe-tapping moves of the roll out need to be so carefully executed.

 

Cheers

 

kaz

 

 

[ahlocks]

is it REALLY an issue?

Probably not. i_dunno But a couple of roosters getting their feathers all ruffled about it is mildly amusing...

 

 

[Gribble]

There are pro's and cons of each, as long as you learn both thouroughly and their adv-disadvantages then whats the problem? I think concentrating on the actual landing part is more important than weather you stop or t&g. Horses for courses, the landing roll to a stop part is pretty simple, unless your really mechanically challenged. Once thats done move onto t&g to maximise landings per hour. Once you have that sorted then onto x-winds and short fields and power-off and flapless etc etc. Walk before run.

 

Anyway, thats my 2c. I hope it contributes. :big_grin:

 

 

[Thx1137]

Hmm. I tend to do one stop at least once per flight, sometimes multiple so I get practice at that!

 

Initially touch and goes were fun the jab because it doesn't exactly leap into the air when heavy with full flaps so in that plane T&Gs needed more practice to make sure everything is done well. I wouldn't know about aircraft with the third wheel on the wrong end (tailwheel) though! :-)

 

When doing a S&G, as long as the aircraft leaves the strip if necessary (as would be done during a full stop) and gos back to the start of the runway I don't see a problem with it even if I don't feel a need to do it. :-)

 

Steven.