Is carriage of a PLB Mandatory?

[Guest Escadrille]

Maybe I am out of the loop but is it now legislated that RAA aircraft must carry a PLB?:confused:

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Not yet

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Thanks Crezzi, Do you ( or anyone) have any notion as to when this may or may not occur? I can't find anything on the CASA, or Airservices sites wrt a date.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Not yet

Is there an exclusion for RAA? I thought it was mandatory if your flight was greater that 50nm from point of take-off (VFRG).

 

Separately; Why wouldn't you just get one and carry it on every flight? I do.

 

If you do a search, you'll find another thread on this topic. The person asking was reluctant to get one, but a few days later had an engine failure quite some distance from civilisation. Fortunately, a safe landing, but he decided after that he would get one and not worry about if / when it was compulsory.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I believe the exemption from having to carry one is in CAO's 95.55 / 95.32 / 95.10. So these will presumably have to be reissued to remove the exemption.

 

IIRC the PLB change was to have been included in the same CAO revision which removed the >5000' restrictions, relaxed the over-water restrictions and allowed CTR access with an appropriate endorsement (rather than PPL). Since the later proved so controversial, those CAO were dropped. I've not seen anything about any new drafts - perhaps someone else has some inside info

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Thanks John,

 

David I have no issue with the sensibility or otherwise of carrying a PLB,I was asking if it was mandatory yet..as I was not aware of any changes rto the CAOS as Crezzi points out. But no worries..

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Is there an exclusion for RAA? I thought it was mandatory if your flight was greater that 50nm from point of take-off (VFRG).

The VFRG is an easier-to-digest form of the regulations but it makes no reference to the privileges and restrictions in the CAO that ultralights/microlights operate under. Hence there is no mention of, for example, the "tiger country" requirement for us to legally exceed 5000' (because it doesn't apply to GA aircraft)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Forget about when and if. Commonsense dictates carrying one!

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I believe the exemption from having to carry one is in CAO's 95.55 / 95.32 / 95.10. So these will presumably have to be reissued to remove the exemption.IIRC the PLB change was to have been included in the same CAO revision which removed the >5000' restrictions, relaxed the over-water restrictions and allowed CTR access with an appropriate endorsement (rather than PPL). Since the later proved so controversial, those CAO were dropped. I've not seen anything about any new drafts - perhaps someone else has some inside info

 

Cheers

 

John

Thanks. It's easy to lose track of where things are specified... So many documents!

 

The VFRG is an easier-to-digest form of the regulations but...

True, and in reading the latest revision I recall that I found something that was actually contrary to the regs. Was going to submit a correction, but other distractions took precedence and I now don't remember the topici_dunno.

 

I just love reading the Acts and Regs :big_grin:

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

And, as you may be aware, not all PLB are created equal. Some float and some don't. Some with GPS and some without?

I don't know why they make them without GPS these days...

 

{SOAP-BOX-ON} Oh, yes, that's right, so people who don't research the difference will be fooled into buying one. {SOAP-BOX-OFF}

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Guys,

 

 

My intention was not to debate whether or not a PLB should be carried nor to debate the various merits of each unit.Thats already been done to death in another thread. I am sure we will all do our research before purchase (or did) but as to carrying one now ,regardless if you consider your opinion is "common sense" that is still a personal decision which could be influenced by outside factors. (if you think about it)

 

 

Back to topic.. so I assume then that it is not yet mandatory to carry a PLB. Thank you to all who provided relevant feedback. I would still ike to know if and when it will possibly be made mandatory...

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

found this on the RAAus website

 

Requirement to carry 406.025 MHz beacons

 

The requirement for an Australian aircraft to carry an approved distress beacon or emergency locating device is stated in CAR 252A (as amended 1 February 2009). However, CAOs 95.10, 95.32 and 95.55 currently allow an exemption from CAR252A for RA-Aus aircraft. Thus, RA-Aus aircraft are currently not required to carry an ELT, though many of our members wisely do so. However, the CAR 252A exemption will be removed from those CAOs sometime during 2010 (the same effect will occur when CASR Part 103 is finally promulgated), so EVERY two-place RA-Aus aircraft operating beyond 50 nm from their starting point will then be required to carry a 406 MHz beacon registered with AMSA. Single-place aircraft are amongst those exempted in CAR252A, so carriage of a beacon is not mandatory for CAO 95.10 aircraft — but it is certainly wise to do so.

 

So, recreational pilots should acquire a 406 MHz beacon (for example, the MT410G costs about $650) and register that beacon as soon as possible. In order to make the process of registration and upkeep of details easier, AMSA have an online registration program. This system is available to all beacon owners to use and there is no charge for its use; go to beacons.amsa.gov.au to register your unit and to find more details regarding how to purchase PLBs.

 

Liability waiver:If this is incorrect blame someone else, not me!

 

 

[bones]

In the gyro world is compusory to carry one in a 2 seat machine regardless if there is 2 in it or not. As other have said just get one simple it done then.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

HMM, PLB or ELT? are they the same thing? the link for CAR 252A states ELT and switched to ARM. you cannot ARM a PLB. you have to manually turn it on.

 

So when, or if it is already in affect, does the PLB/ELT that you are carrying of the type required by CASA.?

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Remember the rush for everyone to get one earlier this year, well I'm sure the compulsion caused that.

Wasn't the rush because 121.5 was no longer being monitored by satellite so the old epirb/plb were no use ?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Ozzie and Crezzie I believe you are both correct and hence the confusion as to what is the CASA requirement( again regrdless of the common sense approach) in essence How are we compliant?

 

I can't get on to the CASA web site at the moment there seems to be a problem and the CAR252a link on the RAA site may be slightly out of date.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

HMM, PLB or ELT? are they the same thing? the link for CAR 252A states ELT and switched to ARM. you cannot ARM a PLB. you have to manually turn it on.So when, or if it is already in affect, does the PLB/ELT that you are carrying of the type required by CASA.?

PLB that meet AS/NZ4280.2 are acceptable - CAR 252A (6) (b) (ii)

 

The GME410 does & I imagine most of the other widely available models also comply.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Managed to get to the CASA site this morning( its crashed again though)

 

CAO 95.55 states that Aeroplanes registered with the RAA (under CAO 95.55) are exempt from Regs 252 and 252A.

 

Civil Aviation Order 95.55

 

as amended

 

made under subregulation 308 (1) of the

 

Civil Aviation Regulations 1988

 

This compilation was prepared on 6 June 2006

 

taking into account amendments up to Civil Aviation Order 95.55

 

Amendment Order (No. 1) 2006

 

Prepared by the Legislative Drafting Branch, Legal Services Group, Civil

 

Aviation Safety Authority, Canberra

 

 

1.8 This section also applies to an aeroplane if the following conditions are

 

satisfied:

 

(a) the aeroplane is a light sport aircraft manufactured by a qualified

 

manufacturer as defined by regulation 21.172 of CASR 1998;

 

(b) paragraphs 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 and 1.9 do not apply to the aeroplane;

 

© the aeroplane is registered with the RAA;

 

(d) the aeroplane owner holds a current special certificate of airworthiness

 

for the aeroplane.

 

 

 

3 Exemption under regulation 308

 

3.1 If the conditions set out in this section are complied with in relation to an

 

aeroplane to which this section applies, the aeroplane is exempt from

 

compliance with the following provisions of the Regulations:

 

(a) Parts 3, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D and 5;

 

(b) regulations 36A and 37;

 

© subregulations 83 (1) (2) and (3) in respect of VHF equipment;

 

(d) regulations 133, 139, 155 and 157;

 

(e) regulations 207 and 208;

 

(f) regulation 210 insofar as advertising of flying training to qualify for a

 

pilot standard specified in the RAA Operations Manual is concerned;

 

(g) regulation 230;

 

(h) subregulation 242 (2);

 

(i) regulations 252 and 252A.

 

 

[Guest Dick Gower]

Don't you just love the way the regs are spread around all ove the place.

 

If you remember what that correction was David please let me know as I have a special interest.

 

As for the VFRG (once called the VFG), it is a continuous project. The hard copy (2007) is well out of date but the internet version is always being updated and can be found as Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Home.

 

As for the ELT requirement, there is an RA exemption at CAO 95.55 para 3.1(i). For everybody else, CAR252A requires you to have one unless the flight is wholly within 50NM of the aerodrome of departure.

 

The reality is that if nobody has seen you for a while (which could be days or weeks!) there is no way of knowing whether you are tangled in the wreckage at the upwind end of the runway, at the destination or anywhere in between.

 

A flight note and an ELT is the minimum way to go but the addition of a SARTIME via NAIPS is another layer of protection. It is easy to do and costs nothing.

 

The other big plus with an ELT is that you register it with AMSA so, if it activates, they know who you are and who to call.

 

Given all this I guess the question is: why would anybody leave home without one?

 

 

[Guest milton56]

As "OZZIE" said commonscense

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

of course "commonscense" but not yet mandatory,my original question...

 

:-)

 

But as an aside ...Government bureacracy legislating to spend my money annoys me even if it may make sense to some opinions...:stirring pot:

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Sigh oh dear..yes I agree that carrying a PLB epirb elt etc is a wise idea but not my original question..however legislation does not stop drink driving, drug taking..poor driving get thereitis selfish ness , bullying and a million other human misdemeanors..

 

But thanks to those for stating..the obvious..

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

At risk of invoking rath of Escadrille by hijacking thread even further i'd just like to point out if i rememember correctly that the unit i bought from Ian during the mass buy transmits on both the 406 meg AND 121.5 freq. the unit has a built in GPS antenna and a pop up vhf one. I have'nt looked at it since i put it in my snatch bag but pretty sure it does. Ian can correct me if i am wrong. therefore even tho 121.5 is not monitored by the rescue mob it should be still monitored by pilot's who have dual coms when one is not being used for chit chat. It was or still may be mandatory to monitor this freq, when in remotish areas.

 

I also belive that the mandatory carriage for more than 50 mile trips was introduced then revoked by CASA. This false start caused the initial rush that we saw. wonder why? Even so i do belive that the RAAus should show some 'fearless leadership' and regardless of CASA ruling make them mandatory for ALL REC aircraft regardless of seating or distance flown from base.

 

As for the "why should one be mandated into buying 'stuff' " argument. This is one product that would show CASA that we are a responsible self govening lot. And it may help to push those much wanted changes that RAAus have failed to obtain for you and me. ect ect ect.

 

Handing back over Escadrille

 

i wonder if every time we mention 'hijacking thread' if a red flag pops up in some dark and dingey basement.? :)

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Nah Thanks Ozzie But I give in or give up..

 

 

[HEON]

Just to add a further bit to regulation bull:

 

Understand that aircraft will require a locating device, and a PLB is OK.

 

If that aircraft is an amphibian landed on water it is considered a boat. A PLB is not sufficent on a boat outside "coastal waters"...such as on GBR etc!