Is carriage of a PLB Mandatory?

[Guest davidh10]

...I also belive that the mandatory carriage for more than 50 mile trips was introduced then revoked by CASA. This false start caused the initial rush that we saw. wonder why? ...

I just happened across the reason...

 

The carriage will become mandatory with the promulgation of CASR Part 103. This was pulled by John McCormick, after starting as CASA CEO in 2009, to stop CTA Access for RA-Aus and a lot of other changes also became casualties. eg. removal of 5,000' limitation and mandatory carriage of PLBs.

 

 

[Yenn]

Ozzie. While you are about it why not ask RAAus to make it mandatory for us all to fit Ballistic chutes and maybe transponders. Both essential safety items.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

ADSB for you sport!

 

 

[davebutler]

Escadrille sorry to hijack your thread.

 

I have read this thread and agree completly with those that say we should all carry ELT's, EPIRB's, call them what you want. But how are we going to achieve this when we can't even convince some the use radios?? With the cost of handhelds what they are now and with all the latest battery technology there is NO reason we should not have a radio in our A/C if we operate at busy airfields especially where training and other ops i.e. gliding take place. I have heard the excuse that the batteries don't last and others, my old KX99 lasts for almost 24 hours on 1 charge!! This is a piece of safety equipment that can be used while flying at home base and when flying more than 50nm. Even if you don't want to transmit at least you can listen to others. Like charity safety starts at home. Come on folks lets comunicate:clap:

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...I have read this thread and agree completly with those that say we should all carry ELT's, EPIRB's, call them what you want.

...

Actually there is a difference, and everyone should have some understanding of the distinction as well as what is required by their situation.

 

• An EPIRB (Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon) is used on a boat. One of the distinguishing features is attachment to the boat in a manner that allows it to float free if the boat sinks, coupled with automatic activation when submersed in water. Note that there are several sub-classifications which have different characteristics.
   
   
  
• An ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) is used on aircraft. Again, there are several sub-classifications including fixed, deployable, ejectable, water activation etc..
   
   
  
• A PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) is used primarily by people and can be used for just about any outdoor pursuit for which an ELT or EPIRB is not required by law. There are just two classifications: Without GPS and GPS Equipped.
   
   
  

 

 

For our purposes in recreational aviation, a PLB is mostly adequate. Note that as indicated elsewhere, a seaplane is classified as a boat under certain circumstances, so if you are in that category, some additional investigation of the requirements is called for.

 

Without going into a lot of detail, the difference between the two sub-classifications is:-

 

1. Without GPS will result in localising the beacon to within about 5nm within about an 4 to 6 hour period (requires multiple satellite passes to localise).
    
    
   
2. GPS Equipped will result in localising the beacon location to within a hundred metres in a matter of minutes (as it transmits its GPS location to the SAR satellite).
    
    
   

 

 

Here's a reference to the rules on CASA's web site.

 

For GA, you may need an ELT, depending on your situation. This CASA reference is provided as the basis for further investigation.

 

But how are we going to achieve this when we can't even convince some the use radios?? ... Even if you don't want to transmit at least you can listen to others. Like charity safety starts at home. Come on folks lets comunicate:clap:

Note that the regulations say that if you have a working radio and the pilot has a radio endorsement, the radio must be used. There is no exemption for ADs where radio carriage is not mandated. So by all means listen only if you aren't flying, but if you are flying, then you must make the required broadcasts, starting at the intention to taxi and throughout the flight as per the regulations.

 

 

[davebutler]

Hi davidh10,

 

I agree with you there are differences in these devices and I also understand the CASA reg with regard to the use of airborne radios. The point I am trying to make is we, and I include myself here, are trying to convince pilots to go out and spend approx $600-00on a safety device that they will use only when they fly more than 50nm from there base when some of these same pilots cannot or will not see the safety of getting a $350-00 radio, learning how to use it and using it.

 

Cheers

 

DB

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

So if you prang with in 50nm then don't use it?

 

 

[Yenn]

How many lives have been saved by them in tha RAAus fraternity?

 

How many of us have ever had to use one or even wished they had one to use when the engine failed?

 

 

[Guest magcheck]

Hi davidh10,The point I am trying to make is we, and I include myself here, are trying to convince pilots to go out and spend approx $600-00on a safety device that they will use only when they fly more than 50nm from there base

Dave

 

You can get PLBs for $400 non GPS model and under $600 with a GPS.

 

You can use it under 50 miles - its only a requirement when going more then 50 nm. They are just as useful no matter how far you fly. For example draw a 10 or 20nm radius circle around your home field and see just how much area that you could be lost in even if you just went for a short trip.

 

They are seriously worth the $$ even if you never use one :) I dont sell them so I have no financial interest - but I can assure you that it makes our life so much easier when we have to try and find you should you go missing.

 

A quick tip for anyone, please make sure you have your PLB somewhere within arms reach (or on your person) we had a case recently where we could speak by telephone with two guys who had come down and where trapped upside down - problem was though that it was very hard to work out exactly where they where because their beacon was on the back seat and out of reach....

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...You can get PLBs for $400 non GPS model and under $600 with a GPS.

 

....

I'll bet, like mobile phones, it is possible to buy a plastic one with lollies in it at Kmart. That would be cheaper and also save the person the 10 minute task of registering with AMSA. By the way, if they are a little less lazy, and they use the Web interface to AMSA, they can leave notes about their trip as well as the usual stuff.

 

Not that I'm suggesting that anyone would do that, but it just beats me why anyone would even sell a non-GPS PLB today, except to appear cheaper for naive buyers.i_dunno

 

Mine is always strapped on my leg , even if I'm just doing circuits. I bought it at the same time as my aircraft, figuring it was just a basic safety item, along with a GPS. It is funny how good habits are as hard to break as bad ones. I also always carry a map of the local area on my knee board and feel strange if I don't take it on flights less than 10nm from the AD.

 

Just like the insurance policies I pay, I hope to never need the PLB.

 

I take the point that there's still a struggle to get everyone to get a radio. In the same light, I wonder how many pilots, who got their ticket pre Human Factors days, are now flying illegally because they haven't yet done HF by the deadline of 30th August 2010?

 

 

[Guest magcheck]

I'll bet, like mobile phones, it is possible to buy a plastic one with lollies in it at Kmart. That would be cheaper and also save the person the 10 minute task of registering with AMSA. By the way, if they are a little less lazy, and they use the Web interface to AMSA, they can leave notes about their trip as well as the usual stuff.Not that I'm suggesting that anyone would do that, but it just beats me why anyone would even sell a non-GPS PLB today, except to appear cheaper for naive buyers.i_dunno

No denying that there are many advantages to a GPS one, but I suppose in some cases some people may not be able to afford the extra dollars. With or without a gPS the key as you say is updating your details online, especially in the case of a non GPS one as it can save a lot of time if your contacts know roughly where you are heading.

 

The big advantage of the GPS one is that the initial detection will come with a position, in a non GPS one it will either come with two positions (from an orbiting sat - real and a mirror location) or no position at all from the geostationary one. If the contacts know where you were planning on going the delay in waiting for a second satellite pass can be overcome very quickly and efforts can be directed towards the most likely of the positions.

 

yeah I know Im probably doing some preaching but there is nothing more frustrating then knowing someone's set off a beacon and being stuck because its unregistered or the contacts are out of date (or worse still trying to find someone who is missing but doesn't have a beacon)

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...I suppose in some cases some people may not be able to afford the extra dollars....

I find this argument difficult to understand. While there will always be corner cases, such as when someone is retrenched or otherwise has their income cut, that does not make a market.

 

The cost difference between a GPS equipped and non-GPS equipped PLB, last time I looked, to be about a hundred bucks. If we all admit that in flying, we've adopted an expensive hobby, then you have to expect costs, albeit that we all try to minimise them where we sensibly can.

 

Let's see what else a hundred bucks would buy:-

 

• Between one and two tank fulls of fuel for most recreational aircraft.
   
   
  
• Less than 3/4 of an hour of aircraft hire.
   
   
  
• Enough oil for two oil changes.
   
   
  

 

 

So taken in perspective, it isn't really that much extra. The barrier, therefore, is mainly psychological (you could also read Human Factors :stirring pot:).