Fuel for thought

[Aussie Steve]

The current edition of AOPA,s magazine "Pilot" has a very interesting article "Fuel for thought" on the alternative Engines and Fuels.

 

We all need to get up to speed on the subject as this will effect most of us in the the very near future. Its not looking good for people with big radials or warbirds that demand the use of Avgas. I fear the days of seeing them flying are numbered.

 

 

100LL is likely to be banned by 2017

 

 

 

I have posted a video link in the "Video Forum" on Lycomings answer to the crisis.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Skipped through an interesting article on this subject in the latest EAA Sport Pilot. I'll read it through properly when a get to it. seem to recall something like testing of alternative replacement fuels, some 200 of them, has been going on for the last twenty years. I'll come back to this thread after a read up.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

The end of 100LL has been debated for some time. I for one would like to see the stuff gone. There was a great deal of angst when lead was taken out of mogas. The truth has been that engines run cleaner. Lead helps with the prevention of valve recession. It does however not stop it for sure. It is worth noting that lead was never claimed to prevent it. The very presence of the stuff though has adverse effects on other parts of the engine resulting in increased wear and tear. Guess it's a little like "you win some, you loose some ".

 

To top it all off aircraft engines more than any other get more frequent oil changes and servicing as well as overhauls. Any possible valve recession and I say "possible" though very unlikely could be addressed at overhaul time.

 

When the fear of lead in mogas was making it's rounds everyone thought that their old dunger would snuff it before too long forgetting the fact that for the valve recession to take place the engine would have to be run hard and over a long period ie well in excess of 100'000 km's. Even then only some engines would or might be affected. It turned out to be a storm in a tea cup. Guess that the same will apply when 100LL goes.

 

fly safe

 

Walter

 

 

[facthunter]

Need to Adapt.

 

The original BRONZE heads on the Gipsy 1C would NOT tolerate LEADED fuel. Attempts at inserting were not too successful but now is commonplace.

 

Any motor with "hard" inserts will handle unleaded as long as the valves are made of a good metal. These engines will also run on LPG and other gases.

 

Falcon valves have been made from "inconel" since the late 80's. This metal was used in turbine blades for a while.

 

The main purpose of tetra-ethyl lead is to prevent detonation. The valve seat saving is a side benefit that is not necessary in most engines these days, and there are some downsides with engines like the Rotax which gets a "build-up" of a deposit on the valve seats because the motor runs too cold for the formulation to work properly. 100LL is a much lower % of lead that the higher octane Aviation fuels that are used in SA.

 

The Grumman AG-CAT which has a Polish copy of the 450 HP Pratt & Whitney runs on MOGAS. Most Aviation Engine specialists reckoned that MOGAS caused more build-up of GUMS in the engine internals. Quite a few current engines can be approved for use of mogas, but there is more chance of Vapour-lock.

 

I have always preferred using Avgas and with the right oils have never experienced dirty engine internals, but there is always the possibility of lead fouling of the plugs.

 

No doubt the oil companies will produce an oil that is OK in Air cooled aero engines that run on mogas.

 

It is expected that the engines will have to run on a lower compression ratio and that will mean a reduced power output. Perhaps 15% or more in some cases.

 

The AOPA article is worth a read. It is certainly uneconomic to produce and distribute a product that accounts for such a small sector of the petroleum market. ( Something like 1, ONE %.). Nev

 

 

[Tomo]

And now all we have to worry about is the extinction of PULP or Mogas that is 'without' Ethanol... which is getting harder and harder to come by.

 

Did I hear diesel?? :big_grin:

 

 

[biggles5128]

Not sure I get ya drift BlackRod, Jab engines have been able to run on Mogas for sometime now, a lot of pilots only use mogas in theirs as they can't get hold of avgas.?????

 

 

[Gibbo]

What ever happened to Kero.. The Old fergies started on 'Standard' when when warm enough switched to Kero. Know a couple of old farmers (90ish) that still do it. It seems to go further and lots less TAX.

 

 

[Tomo]

hi Tomo...more the sound of water disassosiating itself........hydrogen and oxygen...

It's an interesting study C, I've made a few engines run on it.

 

While at college I got hold of a glass see through test engine, and ran hydrogen through it (coming from a cell generator). It certainly works, but there are a lot of things that need to be addressed. Like detonation, high temps, air/fuel mixture control, then there are the generation problems like, rust formulation (water gets muddy), current draw, quality of the water, amount of hydrogen produced etc...

 

Hydrogen flame is extremely hot, I made a burner from mine, and use it for wood craft burning at times, as it's a very fine flame, and to the point! So you can get very fine control, though it will literally blow a hole in a bit of timber if you get to close, or hot.

 

It certainly is a good resource, but pretty tricky to tame and regulate, in a normal piston engine. Though there are engines out there now running off of it. Actually some of the town buses in Perth run off Hydrogen I think.

 

Storing Hydrogen has it's rather large risks, one of the reasons a lot of us make it on the go.

 

What ever happened to Kero.. The Old fergies started on 'Standard' when when warm enough switched to Kero. Know a couple of old farmers (90ish) that still do it. It seems to go further and lots less TAX.

My Fergy has a Kero/Petrol tank. Though Kero is more exy than petrol, so you can see which way I go :)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

We had an old tractor when i was a kid that had that set up. start on petrol then switch it over used a different sort of kero. i think it was labled 'power kero' we also had a washing machine one with the mangle rollers on top it had a kick start engine on it had to use benzine not petrol i think. absolute hillarious roaring it's head off bouncing all over the wash house.., fridge ran on 'Blue' kero ahh life was simple back then...

 

 

[Bryon]

We had an old tractor when i was a kid that had that set up. start on petrol then switch it over used a different sort of kero. i think it was labled 'power kero' we also had a washing machine one with the mangle rollers on top it had a kick start engine on it had to use benzine not petrol i think. absolute hillarious roaring it's head off bouncing all over the wash house.., fridge ran on 'Blue' kero ahh life was simple back then...

Aaaahhhh mammaries....er memories:laugh: