Of Politics and Aviation, Please, not the greens.

[riverduk]

" Don't believe everything you are reading here in regards to Green policy." :ah_oh:

 

Winsor you are right, we don't have to believe what is written here, we just have to go to the greens own web site to see what they want, as Turbo pointed out.

 

"I think considering voting for the Family First party is the most alarming thing I have read on here... Great idea... Lets elect the Christian Taliban and see what happens to your rights." Don't be alarmed, just be alert, the world needs more lerts. Seriously though, Family First is not a Christian party as such, they may hold Christian values (which have stood us, for the most part, in good stead as a society) they do have a number of Christians as candidates but if you were to examine their policies closer I think you would find they are more about Families.

 

I don't know about you but I want my children and my 2 grand kids to have a safe place to live, one where the real concept of family is honored and children are not treated like possessions, accessories or mini me's but are given a chance to be kids in a safe place.

 

There are other parties or groups that probably deserve the title "Christian Taliban" more so than FF, ones I as a Christian would be worried about voting for.

 

But hey at the end of the day, isn't it great that we, as a country have the freedom to express our thoughts and feelings on an open forum like this and not have the thought police kicking down our doors and dragging us away.

 

Cheers, Da Duk

 

 

[winsor68]

"Marriage for all"? Well the "husband" and wife shown in the link photo (Warning, some people may be disgusted) aren't going to contribute progeny for the survival of humanity.

Its all there in their words.

You do realise of course Turbo that you are vilifying at least 10% or our Ra-Aus membership with that sort of statement... I mean the "Warning, some people may be disgusted" part. As a 40 something year old straight male I have found nothing to fear from homosexuals or homosexuality... In fact numerous studies have found that homophobia is directly related to unresolved homophobic feelings. Parents are parents... end of story. You wouldn't suggest that just because a couple divorces that their children should be taken away from them because they are no longer a Male/female couple would you?

And as for the other stuff... that is exactly why I will vote for the Greens... Its about time this outdated policing of people's freedom of choice is stopped.... because the current system of enforcement has done nothing to stop the problem... and has in fact cause untold damage.

 

Of course that is just my opinion... based upon evidence and experience instead of hysteria... and just as I am not a homosexual I am not a drug addict in case you were wondering. lol

 

We can go around and around in circles trying the same old stuff... but show me a single peace of evidence that any of it has worked. I wonder how many of us are sitting with an alcoholic drink in one hand and a ciggy in the other as we smack our heads and say "Bloody druggies!"... Ironic? You be the judge.

 

W68

 

 

[Exadios]

Is there any reason to keep Essendon Airport open?

 

 

[Exadios]

Unless the Greens got a majority in both houses they are never going to get same sex marriages through the Parliament. Not because it is a bad idea it's just that both parties are captive to the religious right.

And, irrespective of whether the Greens are in either house, same sex marriages will become the reality. The reason is simple - homosexually is not an issue for younger people but Human Rights is.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

EX -adios,

 

Is that what you want, adios aviation at Essendon. Are you, perhaps, an EX-parrot?????

 

Do you actually have any idea of the uses to which Essendon is currently put ---- a broad spectrum of aviation businesses ----- if you can't answer your own question in the affirmative, what are you doing here?????

 

 

[winsor68]

Strangely enough... the use of Marijuana in the USA is double of that in the Netherlands among their populations. Don't take my word for it... do your own research. What does that tell you?

 

The thing with the Greens policy on drug use is that it is based upon facts, not popular fiction or fear as so many of the 2 major parties policies are, and the same applies to the Greens policy on homosexuality and Asylum seekers.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Re. The Greens,

 

Have any of you actually looked at Green's economic policies ---- besides a whacking great carbon tax that will push up prices across the board.

 

They include:

 

Re-Nationalization of "natural" monopolies.

 

Increased personal tax

 

Increased company tax

 

Increased indirect taxes, including widening the GST base and increasing the rate.

 

Re-imposition of death duties/estate taxes.

 

Removal of many personal tax deductions, ie; no longer deduct the legitimate costs of producing your income.

 

Removal of the health insurance rebate.

 

An even bigger tax on miners than Rudd proposed --- do any of you understand how the mining "super profit" is struck for the super profits tax calculation ----- before deduction of the cost of finance ---- effectively a tax on EBIT ---- because company tax is still payable. That might be OK for the "Big Three" who mostly finance development and expansion from cash flow, but for Australian owned mining companies it is the same kind of financial disaster as the 1961 Menzies budget. That budget disallowed interest paid by finance companies to debenture holders as a business cost, precipitating a raft of major finance company bankruptcies, with tens of thousands of "mums and dads" losing their life savings.

 

Don't anybody forget that it is the mining industry that is financing what is otherwise a major structural deficit in the Australia economy.

 

A myriad of additional auto taxes, to discourage car use ---- great if you have convenient public transport from where you are to where you want to go --- but in general in Australia, that's a rarity ----but as one candidate has alluded --- personal freedom of movement and travel is not apparently regarded as a necessary freedom in the green future.

 

Removing mandatory secret ballots for strike action. Complete removal of the building industry watchdog ---- even Labor left that organisation in place under their new industrial legislation, and the building unions hate it.

 

But wait, there's more!!

 

In addition, bans on hunting/shooting/fishing -----and given the attitude of one candidate from NSW, a ban on other than "essential" aviation would not surprise me---- and that does not include any private aviation, and a tax system to discourage airline travel --- because that has been talked about in recent times.

 

On that gave me a real laugh in the health policy was, wait for it ---- free gender re-assignment surgery --- I would not have thought that was top of the agenda of urgent public health issues.

 

Go check all these things out --- and then come back and say you are going to vote Greens.

 

Bob Brown is a reasonable kind of bloke, but he has some very strange bedfellows in the party.

 

Including some of the remnants of the the old Socialist Alliance. If you don't know what the Socialist Alliance is/was, read Mark Arron's book on the history of the Communist Party of Australia, CPA. In brief, the Socialist Alliance was formed by a group who though the CPA had gone soft, when the CPA denounced the Starlin genocides.

 

In short, of you want to pull the plug on the Australia economy, and create who knows what level of permanent recession and unemployment, vote Greens.

 

Regards,

 

 

[winsor68]

I am going to vote Greens.

 

Well you said to come back and tell you...!

 

Please Bill...Post the exact references to the above scare mongering tactics you have misquoted above on the Greens Website...

 

I am guessing you don't know where that is because you have gotten all the above from another political source so I will post the link for you...

 

http://greens.org.au/meet-us

 

I am not saying the Greens are perfect...or that I agree with 100% or their policies... but I am yet to see a policy that has any meaning from the other parties.

 

 

[winsor68]

Written before the announcement of the resource tax...

 

Why the resources tax can be a good thing... And what it is because it seems most of us don't know.

 

It’s called the Resource Rent Tax and, for those of us who want to see the development of frontier mining towns into sustainable communities, it is a thing of beauty.

 

It is always reassuring to hear the mining industry cry poor when new ideas are put forward to share the benefits of the resource boom.

 

While the big companies and their lobbyists are sharpening their tongue to decry a new ‘tax’ the rest of Australia should be hoping that a new tax is exactly what emerges from the Henry Tax Review.

 

The tax is called the Resource Rent Tax and, for those of us who want to see the development of frontier mining towns into sustainable communities, it is a thing of beauty.

 

It works like this.

 

It is an “extra” tax levied on the “additional” profits that a firm makes because it has been given exclusive or privileged access to a limited resource - in this case the minerals owned by the Australian public.

 

A firm can make super or excess profits from mining because not everyone has access to the mineral resource. That is, there are only a certain amount of mineral reserves (though more does tend to be found) and the government allocates leases to only a small number of players. Further, there are other “barriers to entry” in that most firms lack the scale and expertise to get into mining.

 

Economic theory holds that if any industry is making excess profits (over the “normal” rate of profit of somewhere in the order of 8-15%) then competitors will enter the industry, and keep entering, until profits fall to the long-term normal rate.

 

But in mining the combination of government regulation and other barriers to entry can mean that there are only a few players, their output is less than perfectly responsive to market demand, they command a premium price and they make super profits.

 

These super profits can be taxed heavily by government without affecting the investment decisions of the few players, because they will continue to invest, and keep existing operations going, as long as they make at least a normal profit.

 

This is therefore an effective tax for governments to deploy, as the tax revenue is collected without (in theory) adversely affecting the level of economic activity in the industry.

 

Of course the mining companies will cry poor – but right now they have huge profit margins and are making billions of dollars from Australia. The existing royalties they pay are a minor part of their expenditures. And the income tax they pay? At most it is the same as other industries, even though most other industries do not get the benefit of privileged access to Australia’s public assets – its mineral resources.

 

The Resource Rent Tax is a crafty instrument – it is calculated on profits, on the success of a venture.

 

With all projections pointing to massive increases in the resource sector over the next 30 years, the tax has the potential to bring in billions of dollars of additional revenue each year – while still allowing mining companies to make large profits. Remember – it’s only a tax on profits above and beyond a generous threshold.

 

This will have two clear benefits to Australia.

 

First, in development of mining communities – it can provide a revenue stream that should have a significant chunk devoted to the rural and remote regions from where it came. Mining towns are all too often desperate and deprived places – not enough housing, schools, hospitals, playing fields, swimming pools and other community infrastructure. A Resource Rent Tax can and should improve the social infrastructure of mining towns – something mining companies stopped doing for two decades and have only recommenced in recent years in a piecemeal and inadequate effort to retain more workers.

 

Secondly, and just as importantly, the income from a Resource Rent Tax can be the basis of a broad sovereign wealth fund – a way of transforming wealth in the ground to long-term wealth above the ground. A source of wealth that can exist for generations after the minerals are gone – providing assets and income for future Australians in this century and the next.

 

Critically any decision needs to be made quickly. This shouldn’t be a debate that goes on forever. Mining communities need certainty, and businesses need investment certainty.

 

The Henry Review is an opportunity to be visionary in the way we build our nation. The presence of one good tax – the Resource Rent Tax – would show it is meeting this challenge.

 

By John Maher

 

 

[winsor68]

EX -adios,Is that what you want, adios aviation at Essendon. Are you, perhaps, an EX-parrot?????

Do you actually have any idea of the uses to which Essendon is currently put ---- a broad spectrum of aviation businesses ----- if you can't answer your own question in the affirmative, what are you doing here?????

Wouldn't it make more sense to move it all to Tullamarine? I mean they are practically side by side. What makes Essendon airport itself so vital to the future of Recreational aviation? Can we fly our Ra-Aus aircraft in there?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Wouldn't it make more sense to move it all to Tullamarine? I mean they are practically side by side. What makes Essendon airport itself so vital to the future of Recreational aviation? Can we fly our Ra-Aus aircraft in there?

Essendon is a MAJOR airport in Melbourne

 

A cursory check indicates if you flew an RA-Aus aircraft in there you'd have to truck it out.

 

Moving this large group of Charter, Training, Air Ambulance, Police Air Wing into the International Tullamarine Airport with it's constant circuit of Heavies is a novel idea, but I think objections from the business commuters at having their flights delayed 40 minutes or so might work against it.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Windsor 68,

 

Re. Greens policy, I am going on the stuff that has appeared in letterboxes around me, and the pronouncement of local candidates --- did you watch the NSW candidate on Sky this morning.

 

Re. the resources rent tax --- a touching display of "Government Knows Best".

 

The big problem about iron ore and coal is that it is in abundant supply ---- and the Mining Super Profits Tax ---- That's what labor called it, regardless of theory, has pushed the sovereign risk rating of Australia way up, and pushed Australia from second, after Canada, as a place to invest, down to about eight or nine, below even a string of African countries.

 

Aside from the "Big Three", a wide range of projects are virtually on hold, including a major tranche of Fortesque development ---- It is the Australian owned miners that have been hit hard by this proposal.

 

All this is a country absolutely dependent on imported capital for development.

 

Do you actually understand how the Super Profits Tax is calculated ----- the cost of funds, ( although increased from 6% to about 10%) beyond a limited uplift factor, is not allowed as a business expense ---- as I said in a previous post, the tax is more or less on EBIT, not what most of us (including the ATO re. normal company tax) regard as a "profit".

 

What are mining royalties, if not a "resources rent tax".

 

Regards,

 

PS: What an attitude for somebody who professes an interest in aviation to display, re. Essendon, "nothing in it for me (RAOz), so let it go".

 

Airport/airfield closure around Australia are one of the most critical issues facing Australian light aviation. I would have thought that was obvious to Blind Freddy, but it seems to have washed over some.

 

 

[Exadios]

EX -adios,Is that what you want, adios aviation at Essendon. Are you, perhaps, an EX-parrot?????

Do you actually have any idea of the uses to which Essendon is currently put ---- a broad spectrum of aviation businesses ----- if you can't answer your own question in the affirmative, what are you doing here?????

I'm here because I'm interested in flying.

 

I do not even know which state Essendon is in so I cannot know what its use is. That's why I asked the question. Location of airports is a matter of public interest. Your answer does not give confidence that Essendon should remain an airport.

 

 

[Exadios]

Re. The Greens,Have any of you actually looked at Green's economic policies ---- besides a whacking great carbon tax that will push up prices across the board.

 

They include:

 

Re-Nationalization of "natural" monopolies.

 

Increased personal tax

 

Increased company tax

 

Increased indirect taxes, including widening the GST base and increasing the rate.

 

Re-imposition of death duties/estate taxes.

 

Removal of many personal tax deductions, ie; no longer deduct the legitimate costs of producing your income.

Do you have a source to support your assertions?

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I do not even know which state Essendon is in so I cannot know what its use is. That's why I asked the question. Location of airports is a matter of public interest. Your answer does not give confidence that Essendon should remain an airport.

As turbo stated above in post #41, Essendon is a major airport in Melbourne.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to move it all to Tullamarine? I mean they are practically side by side. What makes Essendon airport itself so vital to the future of Recreational aviation? Can we fly our Ra-Aus aircraft in there?

I've been staying out of this entire discussion, but I have to admit I agree with Bill (post #42) on this one. We can't just say 'oh we can't fly our aircraft there so it doesn't matter if they close it'. I think that if they succeed in closing some, sooner or later they'll come knocking on the door of the field you fly out of and say that they're closing that one too. We need to try and save all the airports, not just the ones that RA-Aus can fly out of, otherwise I can see things snowballing and then when we start kicking up a fuss when they're closing ones we can fly out of, they'll just sit back and say 'well you didn't care all the other times we've closed airports'.

 

Perhaps I'm more concerned about potential airport closures because I can see it affecting my (and others of course) flying future. I've only started flying comparatively recently to many of you and (hopefully) have an awful lot more years of flying left to go, but if they start closing airports then perhaps that future (and the future of other newbies/young-uns) will be curtailed, and I definitely don't want that to happen.

 

 

[facthunter]

Airport closure proposal.

 

. Tullamarine would cause delays to the sort of traffic that uses Essendon. Tullamarine will NEVER have the 2nd east-west runway that was proposed at the outset as ALL that available land is built on. Avalon serves as a second "heavy" airport but only has a single runway and is a fair distance away.. Essendons runways are not overly long and it is situated where Real Estate people are eagerly wanting to put more Supermarkets on superpriced land.

 

Melbourne has a population MORE than that of New Zealand, and one of the fastest growing cities in Australia. It is hard to see why there is not a proposal to build another airport to serve Melbourne rather than close one down. Nev

 

 

[winsor68]

This is copy and pasted from the Greens policy at its website... No mention of banning any form of fishing/hunting. The Greens are the only party who are actually trying to protect fishing/hunting.

 

Please... Don't listen to the rabid wowsers... Do your own research.

 

Fisheries

 

Goals

 

The Australian Greens want:

 

the management of recreational and commercial fisheries to maintain sustainable populations and fisheries, and to minimise the environmental impacts of fishing.

 

protection of fish nursery habitat.

 

environmentally benign aquaculture industries.

 

a strategy to maintain adequate, biologically representative ‘no-take’ areas within each fishery and/or marine bioregion for the conservation of marine biodiversity and fish stocks.

 

Measures

 

The Australian Greens will:

 

complete the independent ecological assessment of Australia’s commercial fisheries under the provisions of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999.

 

expand fisheries assessments to all Australian fisheries, including recreational fisheries, and develop and implement a national framework for managing recreational and charter fishing.

 

increase the number of Australia's marine reserves, particularly where these improve the resilience of vulnerable fish populations.

 

strengthen and continue Australia’s proactive stance on illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing, including assisting in the development of alternative employment opportunities for impoverished communities now relying on the illegal trade.

 

in cooperation with the states and territories, develop a nationally agreed framework for the assessment and regulation of aquaculture developments based on ecosystems management principles.

 

implement a moratorium on deep-sea bottom trawling in Australian waters and require by-catch reduction in all trawl fisheries.

 

maintain adequate, biologically representative ‘no-take’ areas within each fishery and/or marine bioregion.

 

ban all factory-ship based fishing in Australian pelagic fisheries.

 

 

[Exadios]

I've been staying out of this entire discussion, but I have to admit I agree with Bill (post #42) on this one. We can't just say 'oh we can't fly our aircraft there so it doesn't matter if they close it'. I think that if they succeed in closing some, sooner or later they'll come knocking on the door of the field you fly out of and say that they're closing that one too. We need to try and save all the airports, not just the ones that RA-Aus can fly out of, otherwise I can see things snowballing and then when we start kicking up a fuss when they're closing ones we can fly out of, they'll just sit back and say 'well you didn't care all the other times we've closed airports'.

You missed out the bit which states, "Then they came for the trade unionists."

 

 

[Exadios]

As I understand it the arguments given by the Greens for closing Essendon are:

 

* the lack of an adequate safety buffer zone at the end of the runways which abut residential housing;

 

* the health impact of chronic sleep disturbance caused by aircraft noise;

 

* the impact of avgas on air quality, health and amenity;

 

* the misuse of taxes to keep a redundant airport and marginal operators in business.

 

 

[Ultralights]

As I understand it the arguments given by the Greens for closing Essendon are:* the lack of an adequate safety buffer zone at the end of the runways which abut residential housing;

sadly the ones responsible for this sad situation is the Local councils, allowing development of land surround pre existing airport.

 

 

[Exadios]

sadly the ones responsible for this sad situation is the Local councils, allowing development of land surround pre existing airport.

If a buffer is required by an airport then it could be argued that it is the airports responsibility. That is the airport is required to purchase and maintain the buffer.

 

In any case, when it comes to a solution of a buffer problem, it can now only be addressed by removing the houses or the airport. From the political point of view it would be inadvisable for the aviation industry to propose removal of the houses. So, by process of elimination, .....

 

 

[turboplanner]

Too true Ultralights.

 

There is a 52 square kilometre swamp between Frankston, Mordialloc and Dandenong which last filled in 1952, but because the years have been dry, no one sees it as a swamp, just a plain which is ideal to build fatories and houses on, so the local Councils have been issuing permits to the point that around 150,000 people now live below the flood lines. Historically the flood level rose at the rate of a foot per hour - too fast for a lot of the poeople to get out. Oh, and the State Government built a freeway across it, which concentrates the water even more. At 1/2% casualties about 750 people would die in a bad flood.

 

 

[Gibbo]

The actual owner of the airport is Linfox. They are the ones who stand to make the $$$. How much has MR. fox donated to the greens?

 

It is the only airport within about 15mins (outside of peak traffic) to any of the major Melbourne hospitals and is the airport of choice for any air ambulances (they are based there). Where are they going to go.. Tulla which is about another 10-15mins from the city.

 

Heard a rumor that the Virgin sign on the corner of the freeways is worth close a Mil per year from a reliable source.

 

I grew up directly under the flight path less than 500m from the threshold and the only aircraft I ever noticed was the IPEC 727.

 

EDIT: Add one Gruda 747 that tried to land at the airport back in the eightys. It would have 'just' stopped but never got back in the air unless it had a 100kn wind down the strip..

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

EDIT: Add one Gruda 747 that tried to land at the airport back in the eightys. It would have 'just' stopped but never got back in the air unless it had a 100kn wind down the strip..

Gibbo,Not so, any model B747 would have no trouble departing Essendon with a light load.

 

Exadios,

 

Not so, and I suggest the council doesn't know what it is talking about.

 

If it is RESA (runway end safety areas) being referred to, those can easily be accommodated with only minor or no effect on ASDA or TORA. Essendon is a fully Certified airfield under CASR Part 139, therefor all the required obstacle clearance requirements are satisfied.

 

As to who stands to make money if Essendon is "sold", I suggest you look very carefully at the conditions under which Linfox operates Essendon and Avalon.

 

Regards,

 

 

[riverduk]

Hey guys,

 

seems like this has turned into a real bun fight, anyway I'm already planing my next move and all I have to say is thank goodness for the "innovators."

 

See this web site ElectraFlyer.com - Home of the ElectraFlyer - Electric Aircraft Corporation

 

I'm starting to get all my gear together tomorrow, leccy motor, lipo or Li-fe batteries, solar charger & so on, so that when the greens stuff this country and stop my little ringy ding ding 582 from pushing my trike along and blowing oily smoke all over the country side, (I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning) I'm going electric.

 

But, truth be known, at the end of the day I actually want to do my bit for the environment, I'd be happy to fly electric, I just don't want some big wally in Canberra dictating how my life is going to be run.For me a carrot and stick approach will always work better than just the big stick.

 

For example, I would love to stick a great big array of solar panels on my roof to help with co-generation of power but why bother when:

 

a. I can't afford to spend $40k on the gear to really make it worth while, even after the current government rebates.

 

b. the government will tax me on any revenue I make to pay for their over sized bureaucracies and superannuation.

 

c. The power companies screw me over with ridiculous charges so I can never repay the initial outlay for the equipment.

 

Solar panels on every roof of every house in Australia would have to make a bigger difference to our environment than a carbon tax ever will but it wouldn't matter whether I voted Red, Blue, Green or brindle, no government will ever have the guts to make a real stand on this sort of policy because there is no money in it for them whereas there is no doubt a money making angle for a carbon tax. (oh, hang on there it is: TAX, silly me) Another consideration also, is the off shore interests that dictate our government interests and policies. (Just my thoughts)

 

As I said before, a carrot and stick approach will always work better than just a big stick and at present I have not seen any political party offer me a carrot so I will remain cynical regarding the motive of any political party in Australia and on Saturday will, like all others on this forum, vote according to how I believe is best for me and mine for the future,

 

have a great Saturday and happy voting, cheers Da Duk