5 to 10000 feet?

[ahlocks]

A transponder is not a requirement for flight above 5000 ft.

 

A "radio communication system" is. - COA95.55 Sect 5.1 (a) (ii)

 

A transponder is a requirement for flight in class E airspace. (and classes A, B and C, but we RAA punters don't tend to go there a lot)

 

A transponder aids, but is not essential, to flight above 5000 ft outside of class E airspace. Provided we have our radio tuned to area frequency and maintain a listening watch.

 

That better? :Rogue:

 

 

[ahlocks]

Aw, stop that - people will talk.

(gotta love the smilies haven't yuh. )

You're right Blacky, use what ever tools/toys that are available. :thumb_up:

 

The dirt nap lasts for a loooong time...

 

 

[Mc Guyver]

And then we have the hang gliders and para gliders on CB radios with no height restriction :confused:

 

 

[Guest dad]

Now would that be a gaggle of hang gliders or a giggle:laugh:

 

 

[Kev]

What about the Jab who was caught by Brisbane tower flying above 13000ft? He was asked if he was IFR, replied no and was promply ordered down to below 10000ft . I wonder if he was ever reprimanded? Lucky for others that he was quite happily broadcasting his height even though he was not allowed to be there...I wonder if he was GA or RAAus?

 

 

[eightyknots]

the hang gliders and para gliders on CB radios

This is somewhat strange. The whole idea of the ultralight movement was that aviators would not need to conform to all the GA restrictions: that it would simply be low cost recreational flying with much lower technical complexity requirements. This was meant to include electronic communications.

 

Now we learn that they use two way radio communications after all!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hang gliders are ultralights now??

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hang gliders are ultralights now??

Hang gliders and paragliding aircraft look pretty light to me.

 

However, they don't fall into the now-accepted definition of 'ultralight'.

 

Why then, is it possible for an IFR aircraft to nearly run into them just below 7,000 feet without having this matter sorted/addressed in some way?

 

 

[Relfy]

I heard an interesting exchange on the bris centre frequency a few weeks ago on my return from Kingaroy. It was blowing like hell and just before I left a powered glider took off towards the Bunya Mountains. I was about 15nm from Kingaroy and I heard him on the bris ctr frequency requesting clearance from level 12 to 18 as he was surfing the bunya 'wave'.

 

The controller sounded upset and said, you're not cleared for FL12 and to descend to 8500 asap as he was in controlled airspace and only IFR traffic could be at that level. He replied that he was exempt as he was a glider before the controller requested his transponder status to which he stated nil and the controller said that's another reason to go down to 8500 and that 'noone else can see you'. The pilot replied that he didn't need one and was exempt and it went on for about 5 mins.

 

Resisting the temptation to join in on the 'wave' and to really stir up the controller, i pushed on at 1000ft agl at 70 knots g/s to St George...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

:laugh:perhaps he was thinking of the "powered aircraft giveway to gliders" rule...Wow, im glad he wasn't in an 'ultralight"

 

 

[Relfy]

He probably couldn't think, there aint much oxy-jeans up dat way! :yuk:

 

He kept persisting though, wanted to argue his case with the controller and even requested a 'special permission' in the end, which was denied.

 

At Charleville the other day also, I was no. 2 behind an aero commander and we were taxiing to 30. He made an entering-backtracking call and proceeded into the runway when suddenly we hear a short final call from a cessna from elsewhere, no previous calls at all, who promptly ignored all requests to clarify his position and late call and continued on in silence whilst the aero commander did a tight u-turn to vacate while the cessna rolled past both of us. We both came to the conclusion that he must have had comms probs. i_dunno

 

 

[eightyknots]

Here is a picture of a hang glider above Mount Everest. Mount Everest is 8840 metres high (29,029 feet). It looks like you can encounter hang gliders at any height!

 

 

 

[kaz3g]

Interesting Relfy,And just to reinforce the message...noone is exempt from obtaining airways clearance to operate in CTA...prior to entering

Most weekends the brolly boys take off from Lilydale and climb to 10000 before their victims make the leap of their lives. CTALL is 4500. Often the drop plane goes up through holes in broken cloud... the parachutists may or may not descend through them. The aircraft has CTA clearance, radio and transponder but the parachutists have none of these.

 

Four of five tandem jumpers descending at 150 knots plus with no radio and no transponder! A good reason for having and listening to an appropriately tuned radio when near any drop zone in my view.

 

Recently, the skydiver mob tried to obtain approval to do drops onto Elwood Beach which is in the middle of the coastal VFR Route carrying very heavy VFR traffick in and out of Moorabbin. Commonsense prevailed but they are now advertising jumps into Royal Park on the periphery of Melbourne's CBD which is CTA from ground up.

 

kaz

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

actually they do have clearance to drop within CTA. the pilot must obtain that clearance before dropping when he gives his two minute to drop call. pilot must also obtain clearance to decend. The pilot will broadcast on botyh CTA and local freqs. As for decents thru cloud the drop zone must have a dispensation for this.

 

outside CTA the pilot does not have to obtain any clearance of any kind he just has to broadcast intent to drop 2 minutes before hand. if another aircraft considers a conflict then that aircraft must contact the jump aircraft with the details of said conflict. Consult your charts for the appropriate symbols and notams. monitor the correct frequency. if transiting best to remain 5 nm from the DZ.

 

 

[Guest weekendwarrior]

Just reading the thread and I guess I completely missed the plot....

 

Gliders fly regularly, and legally, above 5,000ft, without transponder, but with radio and under CTA - basically standard VFR rules, although we certainly can't fly hemispheric rule, straight and level...

 

And gliders can even soar legally above 10,000ft as long as we have oxygen onboard and remain OCTA.

 

Now and then gliders fly way higher than this, in what is normally IFR territory, e.g wave flying in the Snowy Mountains - I am not sure what the procedure is, I guess in that case a block of airspace is negotiated in advance with ATC who then issue a NOTAM and steer IFR traffic clear of the area.

 

I'm flying GA and as such am not familiar with RAA rules, but if 10,000ft and above is good enough for gliders (and you don't need a PPL or even a licence to fly a glider in Australia), why can't RAA climb and fly VFR hemispheric up to 10,000ft (9,500ft really) legally ? It makes absolutely no sense to me. But maybe that's the point of the thread?

 

If somebody can enlighten me.... much appreciated!

 

 

[Ultralights]

i regularly fly above 5000 ft without a transponder,(disclaimer-i do have a valid PPL) its not a legal requirement, but the point of having one is to be seen. so how do you be seen without a transponder?

 

simple. Get on the radio, and let the sector controller know your there, and give an accurate position report and track. he can then inform you of IFR or vice versa.

 

as said before, in a lot of places in NSW, its not possible to overlfy an airport below 5000 ft. funnily enough, went on a glider flight last weekend, found a small thermal, and it took us right into sydney CTA, an not 1 call from the pilot requesting clearance.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Rob, are you kidding??.. Gliders are subject to the same rules we are aren't they regarding cta clearences?... Wot the??

 

 

[biggles5128]

Damn rules are funny things arn't they..... I have never been able to figure out why you need a commercial licence to take a photographer up to take a few snappies if your getting paid, but you only need a PPl to let people jump out of your aircraft?????

 

hmmmmm.

 

 

[Guest weekendwarrior]

funnily enough, went on a glider flight last weekend, found a small thermal, and it took us right into sydney CTA, an not 1 call from the pilot requesting clearance.

well no point asking a clearance he certainly wouldn't get one there even with a transponder! Camden is right under an airway, and if the CFI were to know that a club glider ended up above the CTA step (4,500ft), I reckon there would have to be consequences for the pilot backside. Which still beats being splattered on a 767 windscreen.... If there is good lift, normally we go west towards the Oaks and the lake, where the CTA step is at 7,500ft (which now and then we reach, and stay under as well). Gliders are not exempt from VFR rules!! i_dunno