Taxiing blues.....from a learner..any suggestions welcomed :)

[Just H]

Hello all :)

 

Im presently learning in a C172, and might add that Im having a total blast! After a 4 - 5 week gap in training due to some work commitments, I got back into the saddle again and have made soem great progress, and have just started to do circuits, which is very cool.

 

Im also still really pleased as punch with where Im learning and the instructors I have had.

 

My only issue is taxiing on the taxiways etc. Ive learn to operate (and then teach in myself in most cases) cars, trucks, buses, freight trains, etc...but *never* have I had to *steer* anything with my feet!

 

So at present, Im still wandering all over the place and over-correcting / over steering when heading out, and its making me a bit disgruntled. In the air, Im really feeling like Im going great guns, and am absorbing and retaining more and more each time, so Im most happy about that.

 

But this whole steer with feet concept has thrown me a little. My instructors have indicated very clearly that this is something that gets better with practice etc, and I have no doubts that they are correct.

 

So my question is to the good folk here is;

 

Has anyone else really had a bit of a weak spot in this area, and what did you do to overcome it?

 

I have even contemplated asking the school for an hour of just taxiing so I can get over this one issue for now, but I doubt that would be possible...and could get rather hot lol ;)

 

Any suggestions or experience would be appreciated.

 

Just H.

 

 

[flightygirl]

i found taxiing a nightmare... but kept at it and one day realised i was doing it without problem. like most things to do with learning to fly, it will just click in.

 

personally i wouldnt waste a whole hour on the ground. flying is expensive enough as it is.

 

Rach

 

 

[flightygirl]

oh... and one helpful tip from my instructor was to look to the end of the taxi way...... it helps with over corrrection. bit like looking to the end of the runway when landing. makes all the difference.

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day Just H,

 

Flew over Townsville the other day, quite a nice busy area!

 

I know I'm probably not much help, but ensure you don't 'over' steer, as in - don't plant your foot down in big amounts to correct a movement one way or the other. Just little gentle amounts. The 172 has a spring set up, so there is a small delay, and I've noticed quite a few can over steer in them - I know it took me a little to get used to after being used to direct connection.

 

I know it might sound counter productive, but my instructor go me to do it on some of my first few lessons - and that was to zig zag down the taxi way. I thought it a bit of a strange way to teach taxiing straight. But it was the best thing he could have done, as it gives you a sense of what it can do, and the amount needed, plus it gets it in your head which foot to press to go which way. (That was in a Tail drager, so may be a little different, but I reckon it'd have similar effect to the mind)

 

Also in the 172, the slower you're taxiing the further you need to push with your foot before the wheel catches up, only small amounts needed when moving quicker. Be sure you have your heels on the floor too, 'cause if you're dragging a little on one brake, it will make life even harder.

 

Hope that makes a bit of sense, and may be of a little use to you.

 

Great to hear you're having fun. Keep it up :thumb_up:

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

It'll come with practice, don't worry :) When I first started, I found steering with my feet to be completely insane!

 

Soon you'll be doing power slides around the corners....not recommended (and I'm not recommending you do them!), but in the mud sometimes easy to do accdentally and, to be honest, kinda fun

 

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating unsafe taxiing, I'm just playing around

 

 

[turboplanner]

Tomo's o the money H, the 172's spring system requires some finesse or it will catch up and pass you, leading to over-steering, then over-correcting. I like Tomo's zig zag idea too.

 

A lot of C172's taxy straight down the lines, so it's probably only a matter of a few hours.

 

 

[Owi]

All good tips here and I really subscribe to the "practice makes perfect" school. However, if you have one or know a friend with one - practice taxi-ing with a flight-sim with a rudder set up. It helps a lot and if you stuff it up it isn't so expensive *wink*.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Just H -welcome to the forum and you have been given some excellent advice from the above members. Tomo's suggestion is based on his advice from his current instructor and works on the premise of habit forming visual reactions. Forcing your brain-eye- muscle co-ordination in repetition will build the right auto responses.

 

Taxiing is just one of the many skills that you will learn in your training, but all will successfully be achieved by using the appropriate references and anchoring them in your visual cortex and subsequent subconscious memory.

 

The four stages of learning- 1.unconsciously incompetent ( "I don't know what I'm doing wrong") 2. Consciously incompetent( I know what I'm doing wrong but I'm not sure how to fix it") 3.Consciously competent( "That's not right- I'll fix that!"NOW!) 4.Unconsciously competent( "I don't think about it - I just do it!").

 

You'll smile it times to come when you get to the fourth stage in areas of your flying- Stick with it!

 

 

[facthunter]

Steering 172 rtc.

 

There's a fair bit of weight on the nosewheel of a 172. This gives it a heavy feel or an unresponsive feel. You are probably overcontrolling. (Most people do initially). Input smaller amounts and if that is not effective, apply a little more, if needed.

 

Aeroplanes do not drive particularly nicely. They are not cars. They are designed to fly. Also make sure you are not getting the brake on accidently, at the same time. Nev

 

 

[rdarby]

Maybe do a lesson in thick socks, so you can feel the pedals. I found that helped as my large clod hoppers were making me too insensitive on the pedals. Ryan

 

 

[Yenn]

Don't get disheartened. Have you noticed you can steer it OK when landing and also on take off, so if that is OK it will only take a short while to get proficient. Anyway I always taxi in big sweeping curves, just so I can get a view ahead, at least that is my story and I am sticking to it.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I know it might sound counter productive, but my instructor go me to do it on some of my first few lessons - and that was to zig zag down the taxi way. I thought it a bit of a strange way to teach taxiing straight. But it was the best thing he could have done, as it gives you a sense of what it can do, and the amount needed, plus it gets it in your head which foot to press to go which way. (That was in a Tail drager, so may be a little different, but I reckon it'd have similar effect to the mind)

I'm learning in a tail dragger and the reason why you zig-zag is for visibility because, due to the of the angle of the plane, you could hit something right in front of you. Hence the zig-zag taxiing.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Someone should ban those stupid nosewheel aircraft.

 

 

[Tomo]

I'm learning in a tail dragger and the reason why you zig-zag is for visibility because, due to the of the angle of the plane, you could hit something right in front of you. Hence the zig-zag taxiing.

You're certainly not wrong about visibility - the Luscombe isn't real good for that! (vis that is)

 

But in my case it was getting hang of the steering - 1st and 2nd lesson it was done mostly. And I was in a Drifter so plenty of view.

 

But I know what you mean!

 

 

[Just H]

Well, what can I say but thanks! There has been some excellent advice provided that seems to make perfect sense! Im booked to go again this coming Sunday, and I will keep the ideas given, along with my instructors advices, and see how what we come up with ;)

 

I wont go thanking individuals here, as ALL the tips given are of value - especially some of the info on the actual aeroplane type being the way it is, and some of the ideas (like the tip about keeping some focus on the end of the taxiway rather than too close) also makes sense, as in hindsight, the one day where I felt Id improved in this area was the one day I wasnt being so focused on this part, and was looking further afield. Another little area that took me a bit of getting used to was the "feel" of the trim wheel, so the "Select, Hold, Trim" thing was a bit challenging, but hell, thats why I love learning to fly - its all still new and I did seek a challenge ;)

 

With such enthusiastic advice, I will be sur eto pop back here afetr next Sunday's sortie, and let you good folk know how we got on *this* time :D

 

Thanks again guys (and girls). I hope some day that I may be able to contribute back :)

 

 

[poteroo]

Ask your instructor to load about 20kg into the baggage compartment of the 172. This will lighten the weight on the nosewheel, and will also ensure that you don't run out of 'back' trim with full flap selected on approach. We do this with all our '2 people up' training in C172, C182 and larger Cessnas.

 

Later on, your instructor will no doubt show you how to distribute weight back through the cabin area so that on cruise you have as close to neutral trim selected, (= negligible elevator protruding into the airflow= min drag).

 

happy days,

 

 

[Just H]

Well, last lesson (just yesterday, Sunday), we did the zig-zagging on the taxiway, and this has helped immensely. Im still nowhere near as proficient at it as Id like, but theres and improvement, and thats excellent. I took onboard some of the suggestions offered, and one that is helping noticeably is the idea of looking further ahead on the taxiway, when trying to keep a straight line. But the big sweeping zig-zags was good for learning how to get the aeroplane to do what I want it to do on the ground, and I was getting quite chuffed with it before the taxiway ran out and it was time to line up at the holding point. :)

 

As agreed with my instructor, what I would like to do next is have a lesson to just reinforce and practice a couple of things that (along with taxiing) will assist the old confidence factor a bit more, prior to hitting the circuits again. For some reason I seemed to have lost my mojo a little this week. Funny how the adult learning cycle goes hey....but last three lessons were tops, so one out of four aint so bad ;)

 

 

[facthunter]

Ups and Downs.

 

You need the relapse to consolidate. In the early stages you do a lot by imitation copying etc. Later you use YOUR OWN accumulated judgement based on your experience/knowledge base, and get more consistent results. Nev

 

 

[Just H]

Nev, from past learning experiences, I reckon you'd be right. Its still a hard pill to swallow though. I am sub conscioulsy expecting that *next* lesson will be one of those ones where you walk away feeling like youre really cutting the mustard again ;) And if it doesnt pan out that way, then the next one after that must be something super special to look forward to :)

 

 

[Guest skidmark1975]

You need the relapse to consolidate. In the early stages you do a lot by imitation copying etc. Later you use YOUR OWN accumulated judgement based on your experience/knowledge base, and get more consistent results. Nev

A very accurate assessment Nev..

 

 

[Just H]

Hello all - just thought Id drop in and for anyone interested, give you an update on my progress.

 

Im pleased to say that Ive come a long long way from my initial worries about taxiing lol, these days my efforts are concentrating more (lately) on crosswind landings - something quite daunting to begin with. Ive now got 19hrs under my belt, have the student pilot license, asic card, and medical paperwork should finally surface this week.

 

One of the things I did learn was that I may have set myself up a bit in a bad way to begin with when commenccing circuit training, in that i found it was most suitable for my work schedule, to go early mornings before work. It is cooler, and a very nice time of the day to fly with little to no wind. Landings were really coming along nicely, and I have (since) been doing most of the circuit work unassisted and unprompted, but still requiring a bit of support when on late finals - the big scary ground thing was happening a bit at first. Having become quite confident and competent at this, I then doiscovered that crosswind brought in a whole new set of issues to deal with (not suprisingly), and this has been most exhilerating to work on mastering.

 

Another issue was my lack of (seemingly) wanting to manhandle the aeroplane a little more - Ive always been very "gentle" on machinery (except in old 2 stroke American diesel engines and trasnmissions which required you to drive them like you "hated" them), and as a result was not having strong enough control inputs to counreact the various forces - and also - had a huge fear of coming in on an angle - it just didnt seem natural at first.

 

Went out again this afternoon for more circuits and "engine failure after take off" training - all of which is now going very well.

 

Some wise commentary was made earlier in this thread when I had a bit of a relapse - and suggested that this needed to happen so that I would then finsih up eventually, using my own accumulated judgement. This was quite profound, and i can now see how true that has been. Watching a few clips on you tube involving crosswind landings has also helped demonstrate just how much control inputs are really needed and has helped also in a small way. Directional control has improved heaps, and Im now at that stage where there are less "heart in mouth" moments and more successes in attempting to master the art of flying.

 

I have to give a great deal of credit to my instructors - I have had one instructor now for the last 8 or more hours, and he has been excellent. Ive gained so much more knowledge form him and the CFI who i have recently been flying with that even though its not a chep exercise, the vaalue foir money in the amount of information learnt inside the space of that (all too short) time, is amazing.

 

If I didnt have the flyimg bug fully before, I have now :)

 

Not far off first solo time....watch this space, and thanks again for all the support and encouragement you guys have offered here :)

 

H.

 

 

[foxy]

great to hear you are progressing well, Just.

 

One thing that is really the most important to remember, is that YOU are in control of the aeroplane. Be ITS boss....dont let it be the boss of YOU!

 

the different attitude in the crosswind landings, having to land the thing with the wings not level, is where most people get caught out....its just so far away from what you've been taught so far. Just remember that the nose is still pointed in the same place as a normal approach, just off to the side a little when you're weather-cocking, and then having one wing down in the flare...a bit daunting. its a natural reaction to try and level the wings.

 

Im interested to know how you track the final leg in the crosswinds?? some places teach to weather-cok the aeroplane into wind and then kick straight with rudder and hold aileron into wind over the threshold, and some hold that wing down attitude for the entire final leg...sometimes if you're having trouble with getting and holding that wing down-(aileron into wind)-in the flare, it can be useful to fly the whole final leg in that attitude....lets you see the attitude for the flare, right from the beginning.

 

liz

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

In the 172 I was taught to hold the yoke back a bit during taxi, which lightens the load on the nosewheel, and also to place your left hand in the center of the yoke, instead of on the LH grip. This helps in holding the yoke back, and eliminates the urge to steer with the yoke which is a natural tendency, as we drive cars all the time.......................................................................................................Maj

 

 

[flying dog]

Although it is a bit of "overkill" here is a suggestion:

 

Do you remember what Billy Carts are?

 

They are/could be foot steering.

 

Alas they are opposite to how a plane is, but there is a way around it.

 

The Billy Cart's steering is a bar at the front which swings back/forth to turn the front wheels.

 

Make the main length a bit longer (say an extra meter long). Leave the original steering board where it is. Install another board at the front. Put the wheels on this.

 

Between the seat and the steering beam, put a pully.

 

On the LEFT side of the steering beam, attach a spring. At the other end of the spring, rope.

 

Run this rope around the pully then to the LEFT side of the front most beam.

 

Repeat for the RIGHT side of the steering beam with another spring, the rope around the pully and to the RIGHT side of the front most beam.

 

Tighten the pivot points to give high friction - this simulates the weight of the plane.

 

This way when you push your left foot foreward the cart will turn left.

 

The springs give you the "slack" feel as discribed the 172 gives.

 

Any takers on building one to try?

 

 

[eightyknots]

Although it is a bit of "overkill" here is a suggestion:Do you remember what Billy Carts are?

 

They are/could be foot steering.

 

Alas they are opposite to how a plane is, but there is a way around it.

 

The Billy Cart's steering is a bar at the front which swings back/forth to turn the front wheels.

 

Make the main length a bit longer (say an extra meter long). Leave the original steering board where it is. Install another board at the front. Put the wheels on this.

 

Between the seat and the steering beam, put a pully.

 

On the LEFT side of the steering beam, attach a spring. At the other end of the spring, rope.

 

Run this rope around the pully then to the LEFT side of the front most beam.

 

Repeat for the RIGHT side of the steering beam with another spring, the rope around the pully and to the RIGHT side of the front most beam.

 

Tighten the pivot points to give high friction - this simulates the weight of the plane.

 

This way when you push your left foot foreward the cart will turn left.

 

The springs give you the "slack" feel as discribed the 172 gives.

 

Any takers on building one to try?

Where will the wings be attached?

 

Another suggestion is to purchase rudder pedals and use it with Microsoft's Flight Simulator program. The only drawback that I found is that the FlightSim rudder pedals are much lighter than the real thing. Nevertheless, you still get the idea of steering with your feet ...and it works the right way.

 

I found the FlightSim exercises a real help after I found taxiing exercises on a tailwheel Piper Pacer quite difficult initially.