Russian monster take's off....just

[seb7701]

Might be an old video, but it put me on the edge of my seat!!!

 

 

 

[JimandJo]

WOW talk about using up all the runway. Great viewing and commentary. Thanks Seb. JIM.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

There was still 500ft of usefull dirt left. had a climb rate and was heading for the saddel in the hills. what was the problem? nations capital airport! plenty of room.

 

 

[pudestcon]

There was still 500ft of usefull dirt left. had a climb rate and was heading for the saddel in the hills. what was the problem? nations capital airport! plenty of room.

Yeah right!!

 

 

[dazza 38]

I dont see the problem.He used every inch of available runway.LOL.The ATC, voice was a classic"i hope i dont run out of film before he crashes LOL".

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Folks,

 

A little understanding of performance in aeroplanes of that generation jets would tell you that was a normal takeoff in "on the limit" conditions.

 

Many was the time, in a B707, when we only lifted off (when the squat switches release, you could the landing gear lever latch solenoid release) as the "piano keys" passed our peripheral vision.

 

A wet takeoff in a P&W JT9D-3A at gross, out of Athens or Bombay on a summer night, could be an "interesting" experience --- but spot on with the book figures.

 

What annoys me about this sort of ignorant nonsense (apart from the assumed superiority of the tower crew) is that it is automatically assumed that somebody did something wrong --- how many "aviation people" complain about media ignorance and distortion --- then, as in this case, commit the same atrocities.

 

Regards,

 

 

[turboplanner]

So, using that logic, you're suggesting we extend our flying range by planning trips to land with zero fuel at shut down - no safety margins is it?

 

 

[Spin]

Bill, I would hope that you had your tongue lodged firmly in your cheek with that comment. I have never had the pleasure of flying a 707 but I've heard and read quite a bit of commentary from professionals, on that piece of video and your's is the first to suggest that the takeoff was according to the book. In so far as the "assumed superiority" of the ATC, they may not have the requisite skill to fly the beast, but I suspect that after several years they would have a finely tuned sense of what was normal acceleration, runway usage and climb gradient.

 

 

[facthunter]

Critical Length Runways.

 

There are a few aspects to this.

 

1 Very large aeroplanes look to be going slow because of their sheer size.

 

2 Most take-offs with LARGE engines use derated engine power to save the engine. This makes the runway length critical so that IF you decide to abort the take-off at decision speed, you can JUST stop within the remaining runway and designated over-run areas, using maximum braking. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The russian turbojets, many of which are poorly done copies of Western engines can lack a bit of power at times. The IL-76 in particular does not have a good history throughout the world, because of it's lack of power, and many past crashes . We did have them coming in to Townsville for a while ferrying Army gear. A few times when they were turning to final over my house, it sounded like they were using differential engine thrust to turn the thing...and noisy. Haven't seen them lately, they seem to have been replaced with the larger and more modern AN-24.

 

one can only imagine that particular aircraft in the video loosing one (or more) engines half way down that runway, or after V1...................................................................Maj

 

 

[turboplanner]

FH, Would you really reach V1 and rotate at the end of the runway?

 

 

[facthunter]

Stop or Go?

 

Decision (V1) is before rotate and the rate of pitch change during rotation is quite slow to prevent tail strike. (More likely with T tail configurations). The wheels leave the ground at about 8 to 10 degrees of pitch up and the rotation is continued straight through to 18 degrees . (passenger comfort limit, not always applied). If the plane is very heavy you may not be able to get to 18 degrees as you must have and keep minimum control speed, Vmc (A).

 

As Bill said, as the wheels unstick the piano keys can be right there under you.

 

The other factor is that a 4 engined plane does not have the surplus performance that a twin engined plane has. They both have to cope with an engine-out situation but the twin loses 50% of the total power that it had and a four engined plane only loses 25%. The twin engined example is much more overpowered in the normal configuration. Nev

 

 

[nong]

Any work pilot would recognise that the Ruskis technique was correct. It is one thing to pilot an aircraft, but quite another to handle an overloaded work-horse in hot thin air. Speed is mandatory...... Climb is optional !

 

 

[turboplanner]

....and unfortunately mistakes are final.

 

Talking about work pilots, here's one over Papua New Guinea. I was just fiddling with a new camera, taking photos of the wing in cloud when this skidded past!

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Cloud type.

 

Think that is a strato-cumulus rockus. They are all over PNG. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Close; it was a strat0-cumulus rockus abuvus

 

 

[facthunter]

Hmmm.

 

yeah, not good really. Nev

 

 

[flying dog]

I haven't read all the posts, but what I heard was the crew got their a$$$$'s chewed off. If anything had gone wrong it would have REALLY gone wrong if they needed to abort the take off, or something.

 

Anyway, it is still kind of good to watch - but more as a what NOT to do than being good.

 

 

[Chrisso]

JT9 or JT3.

 

Folks,A little understanding of performance in aeroplanes of that generation jets would tell you that was a normal takeoff in "on the limit" conditions.

 

Many was the time, in a B707, when we only lifted off (when the squat switches release, you could the landing gear lever latch solenoid release) as the "piano keys" passed our peripheral vision.

 

A wet takeoff in a P&W JT9D-3A at gross, out of Athens or Bombay on a summer night, could be an "interesting" experience --- but spot on with the book figures.

 

What annoys me about this sort of ignorant nonsense (apart from the assumed superiority of the tower crew) is that it is automatically assumed that somebody did something wrong --- how many "aviation people" complain about media ignorance and distortion --- then, as in this case, commit the same atrocities.

 

Regards,

Hey Bill the JT9D's were used on the Boeing 747. The 707's used mostly JT3's. The RAAF ones were when I was on them JT3D-3B's.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Just think of the capital cost in constructing a runway of that length. Yet, not a metre was wasted by the pilot of this "vodka burner".

 

 

[eightyknots]

Have a look at this airport (altitude: 9,380 ft ~ imagine how thin the air is at that height) where the full length of the runway is used more often than not:

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Check this twin otter landing at the same place. once the guy gets his focus sorted out have a look at what departing as he is on finals. uphill taxi looks tricky easy to hit a bit of power and sit it on it's tail. wonder if they just push the wrecks straight over the drop.

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Chrisso,

 

Of course, you are correct, I should have made it clear that the wet takeoff referred to QF P&W powered B747-238.

 

The marques of engine used on the various QF 707 were, in order, JT-3, JT3D-MC6 and JT3D-3B.

 

Regards,

 

 

[eightyknots]

This Lukla airport video made me ask some questions about the level of ATC there as well. Either it is really tight management or everyone is doing their own thing.

 

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Bill, I would hope that you had your tongue lodged firmly in your cheek with that comment. I have never had the pleasure of flying a 707 but I've heard and read quite a bit of commentary from professionals, on that piece of video and your's is the first to suggest that the takeoff was according to the book. In so far as the "assumed superiority" of the ATC, they may not have the requisite skill to fly the beast, but I suspect that after several years they would have a finely tuned sense of what was normal acceleration, runway usage and climb gradient.

Spin,

 

Not at all.

 

As one example, from the old Eagle Farm in Brisbane, from Brisbane direct to Honolulu on a summer evening, 0.5 kt of headwind could be the difference between making it direct and having to make a tec. stop on the way.

 

Struts extended as the "piano keys" passed under the nose was almost always the order of the day.

 

I have about 8000 h on various B707, including the QF B707-338C, so I got to know them rather well.

 

There are quite a few comments on this thread by people who would not understand just how "interesting" aircraft certified to SFAR 422B ( or UK equivalent) could be to operate.

 

The Poms added a few wrinkles that made it "even more interesting" ---- as anybody who understands a lot of what D.P Davies is saying in "Mishandling The Big Jets" (the corrected title of his magnum opus) would appreciate. A G- registered B707 got altogether too interesting, at times.

 

Regards,