URGENT - need your advice on RAAus fee increases

[Admin]

There is a proposal which will be discussed at the board meeting to increase, and introduce new, RAAus fees so I would like to get YOUR input to what you think so I can respond according to your wishes. Firstly you would have to assume simply by the fact that it is being proposed that fee increases are or will be needed but what shouldn't be assumed is any reasons why so please don't pollute the thread with those kind of posts as I have simply posted trhis to get your response on how to best represent you on this matter...thanks for understanding.

 

This is what is being proposed:

 

Membership Renewals (annual) Inc GST

 

A. New – Non-Flying $90

 

Increase to $100

 

Member - Non-Flying $ 90.00

 

Increase to $100

 

B. New Student - $160

 

Increase to $170

 

C. Member Renewals – Student Pilot & Pilot $160.00

 

Increase to $170

 

D. Junior Members New $80

 

Increase to $90

 

E. Junior Members Renewals $80

 

Increase to $90

 

F. Pilot Instructor and Senior Pilot Instructor $170.00

 

Increase to $180

 

G. Chief Flying Instructor and Pilot Examiner $190.00

 

Increase to $200

 

H. Pilot to Instructor $10.00

 

Increase to $20

 

I. CFI Approval $20

 

Increase to $30

 

J. New Affiliated Club $90.00

 

Increase to $100

 

K. Affiliated Club Renewal $ 90.00

 

Increase to $100

 

L. Introduce an Annual Fee of $150 to aid in the cost of school inspections

 

Initial Aircraft Registration Inc GST (Inc first year rego)

 

M. Aircraft with one seat $110

 

Increase to $120

 

N. Aircraft with two seats $220

 

Increase to $250

 

O. Allocation of Aircraft Assignment Number* $ 38.50

 

Increase to $50

 

*Aircraft assignment number fee deducted when aircraft is registered within 3 months of the allocation date.

 

Aircraft Renewal (annual) Inc GST

 

P. All number allocation renewal $38.50

 

Increase to $50

 

Q. All aircraft with one seat renewal $ 55.00

 

Increase to $65

 

R. All aircraft with two seats renewal $110.00

 

Increase to $130

 

Aircraft Transfers Inc GST

 

S. Change of Ownership $ 55.00

 

Increase to $65

 

Aircraft Transfer from HGFA or VH Inc GST

 

T. Transfer of Registration from HGFA and VH - Single Seat $ 110.00 Includes $55 transfer and 1 year rego

 

Increase to $130 ($65 Rego and $65 Transfer)

 

U. Transfer of Registration from HGFA and VH - Two Seats $ 165.00 Includes $55 transfer and 1 year rego

 

Increase to $195 (130 Rego and $65 Transfer)

 

V. Members Market per ad of 50 words $11.00 per month and photo $11.00 per month

 

Increase to $15 for Text

 

Increase to $15 for Photo

 

PUBLICATIONS Inc GST

 

W. Operations and Technical ManualsMembers (replacement copies) $16.00

 

Increase to $20

 

X. Non-Members $38.50

 

Increase to $45

 

Y. Aircraft log book $ 9.40

 

Increase to $10.00

 

AA. Pilot log book $ 9.70

 

Increase to $10.00

 

BB. FAA AC43.13 $45 (if picked up) and $60.00 (Inc postage)

 

Increase to $50 (Pickup)

 

Increase to $70 (with postage)

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

With the "L. Introduce Annual Fee to aid with school inspections", would that be on top of the membership fee?

 

So the yearly total for a student/pilot would be $170 + $150 = $320?

 

 

[Admin]

That is a "School" fee Darky

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

That is a "School" fee Darky

Ok, thanks. I wondered if that was the case but was a little unclear on whether it just applied to schools or to everyone.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I would assume someone has projected what the extra income from all this will be. The only way we can decide whether we approve is to know what the money will be used for. A budget would be appreciated!

 

Without good reason, any increase beyond normal inflation (since the last increase or when they were set) seems excessive.

 

 

[robinsm]

I agree with the above. I would not object to the increases but I would like to see some value for the extra dollars. Apart from the magazine and the yearly subs, some obvious support for members in exchange for the dollars would be appreciated. What can we expect that would be tangible?

 

Maynard

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Can someone who remembers tell us when the last rise happened? I cant remeber it. If it was a while ago as I suspect it doesnt take many years at 2-4%cpi to justify a $10 rise in fees....

 

for those owning an aircraft the annual increase is likely $40 on $380 or about 10% which is about 3 years inflation.

 

All that said, on the other side of the ledger we have been getting bigger and bigger and there should be some economies of scale to offset the inflationary effects.

 

As Bas said there is more to know before we can work out if this is good, bad, or just par for course

 

For me, if the purpose is just to ensure that we dont run at a loss and nothing fundamentally has changed ie no big expensive new things that we didnt use to have then I approve. Sure I'd rather not, but in many cases cheaper isnt necessarily better... unless its a jabbi..of course :<)

 

Andy

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

In aviation planes aren't the only things that go up! RA Au$ becomes Ca$A. We better get used to it! As we become more GA like and more GA pilots migrate to RA Aus this is going to place more pressure on admin costs- the price for being successful. This is why we need to get the board fundamentals right now- before it becomes a runaway train.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Can I suggest that the increase for those that are able to generate income from RAA activities be significantly higher than the increases for enthusiasts.F. Pilot Instructor and Senior Pilot Instructor $170.00

 

Make it $200

 

G. Chief Flying Instructor and Pilot Examiner $190.00

 

How about $300

 

H. Pilot to Instructor $10.00

 

Come on !! $100

 

I. CFI Approval $20

 

...$200??

 

I'm affected by the proposal but I realise that I should be paying my share (and, I can claim it at taxtime)

Without the schools there wouldn't be too many new members joining RAAus and many (most ?) newly minted Instructors do it for the love of flying & to put something back - they don't actually make any real money from doing so. It seems harsh to plug them for extra fees.

 

I don't really object to a CPI increase but I have to agree with the previous posts about an alarming lack of visibility on the budgets & expenses

 

John

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i suppose the increases will be inevitable now the CEO position had a wage increase along with general increases in day to day expenses. take electricity for example. i am sure that office cranks a few watts.. Like most great jobs the renumeration is usually a lot less than 'boring' jobs. Maybe trimming the 'fat' and dispensing with a position or two may keep costs down to keep any increase for members at a minimum. Wonder how much it costs to run a President these days?

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Ian;

 

I agree with Bas. Apart from that, my comments are:-

 

• Nobody wants a fee increase, but I recognise that every other activity I engage in, even like just living, goes up.
   
   
  
• I agree that as the organisation gets bigger, there should be some efficiencies of scale.
   
   
  
• The organisation may be having more work imposed by CASA, which inevitably leads to additional cost. I guess we cannot help that.
   
   
  
• The report by the Treasurer (RA-Aus), on this site was illuminating and it suggested that cost escalation has gone exponential over recent years, with perhaps insufficient justification or maybe just a lack of understanding as to where it is going and for what return. It sounds like the organisation needs to look at the way it goes about things and maybe do some business process re-engineering. A much bigger organisation should be doing things more efficiently than a small one.
   
   
  
• I agree with the comment about Schools /CFIs / instructors not being thought of as cash cows. After all, how many schools are there? If you doubled their fees it would actually not increase revenue as much as a very modest increase to general membership.
   
   
  
• The fact that most fees (ranging from $20 to over $200 have just had $10 added to them suggests a lack of thought behind the process. Modern thinking is "user pays", hence the fees for each activity should reflect the relativities in cost of performing those activities. It is important however, that we not introduce location based charges that would disadvantage rural and remote members. Some cross subsidisation in a national organisation is inevitable and acceptable.
   
   
  
• Non-flying members increases should be kept to inflation at the most, but in reality the only cost of a non-flying member is the magazine, so I cannot see any justification for a big increase. We may even get more revenue from a price decrease, with more encouraged to join!
   
   
  
• The double registration between one and two seat aircraft is really strange and does not seem to reflect cost, but rather an arbitrary assignment that might be more appropriate if we had paying passengers! Is this related to an insurance loading for personal injury? Surely the costs are more around the complexity of the aircraft and approval / checking of documentation.
   
   
  
• Sudden re-alignment of fees, such as charging same registration for one and two seat aircraft may be a bit of a shock to owners of one seat aircraft, so a process of gradual re-alignment over a period of years would need to be done.
   
   
  

 

 

I hope this provides some food for thought and it is good to see another board member reading and posting in these forums :)

 

 

[winsor68]

Perhaps they could leave the fees as is and stop sending the Ra-Aus mag to every member. I would be happy to buy my own from the Newsagent and save Ra-Aus the cost of postage... plus I would get it a week earlier.

 

 

[bones]

Hmmmm this is very interesting, i do not belong to the RAA, though food for thought, is ASRA(gyro world) is all voluntary board member and their time is just that voluntary, and well i wont bore(shock) you all with our fees :)

 

You would think with the 10k odd members the RAA has, one only needs to think where does all this money go, and yes the ASRA has to jump through all the same hoops the RAA does, and ASRA last time i talked to a board member was one of the top performers in CASA's eyes.

 

Must cost a lot of money to keep that office open.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

People cannot believe how inexpensive it is to register an RAAus aircraft. Compared to other sports this is peanuts. We are blessed to have a good organisation, which is more dependent on goodwill and high morale than regulation and fees. Let's support those who give their time to run this operation.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I don't mind the price increase. The increases in the last 10 years

 

Non Flying member:

 

2001 $82.50

 

2002 $88.00

 

2007 $90.00

 

$2 increase in 5 years and no increase in 3 years.

 

They could save a little by asking non flying members (often spouses) if they want a magazine - Husband & I are both members and we get two magazines posted separately.

 

I also agree that revisiting the whole fee structure (rather than just an across the board increase) would be a better strategy. Maybe lower student fees to encourage them into the fold, lower non flying to encourage spouse / friends of flying to add their support. Clobbering a one man school with a school fee, CFI fee, etc might be too much especially off the beaten track where there are few students, and be counter productive, where, by comparison the larger schools find this a small amount.

 

Sue

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

Ian (and members) I have had a look at this and believe that there is more work to be done with regards to the budget before I consider the board to be in a proper position to decide on any increases. There are always two sides to a debate and you have many ideas and thoughts here. I think we should consider increases where it is needed (for example I do not believe that we should hammer the schools because they make money but I do believe that they should contribute to the costs associated with keeping these facilities at such a high standard - school inspections for example. These are merely my thoughts at the moment remebering of course that I am a new board member and have a lot to learn about the costs being imposed and the budget as a whole). I will be at the board meeting and will be asking some questions with regards to this. Kind Regards Steve

 

 

[David F]

Fee Increase

 

Its difficult to judge if the increases are justified or not.I think that all members should recieve an annual statement regarding income and expenditure.Remember its the RAA not the RTA.

 

Dave

 

 

[Guest Steven Runciman]

David,

 

I agree, there should be an annual statement provided to all members and it is something that I will be proposing during the AGM. Regards, Steve

 

 

[turboplanner]

Good luck Steven, you have my support

 

 

[Admin]

This is all great help guys as remember I represent you.

 

Some points to consider...

 

1. RAAus is required by CASA to audit every flying school. We now have more flying schools teaching RAAus then schools teaching GA. This requires extra staff hrs to complete and all around Australia to boot. This has dramatically increased our costs.

 

2. There has been no increase in fees for many years so these increases could (???) be in line with CPI.

 

3. The increases have been proposed by the current Treasurer and note "Only proposed for discussion"

 

4. I personally do not see or have been advised on the thought behind the proposal

 

5. I "think" cost recovery has not been completely examined in the proposal...for example the income from ASIC administration does NOT cover costs of time and materials of ASIC administration...each RAAus activity should be considered in this light and where gaps are exposed then analysis in either cost reduction processes, direct cost recovery OR strategic pricing should be the driver of the set service price.

 

6. Fee increases are in basic terms like politics...there is the need to derive X amount of income and the different political parties select different areas to derive the same income (the need) so in this case is it to be X across the board or 2X from one area or 2X from another area...THIS IS THE QUESTION and the answer has to be strategic for the betterment of the RAAus and its members as a whole.

 

Just some thoughts...and you guys have come up with some great helpful suggestions that have added "value".

 

 

[Admin]

Oh, just one more thing...

 

Please don't say that everyone should get a copy of the financial statements as they are ALWAYS available to any member who wants a copy by simply asking...sending out a copy to all members increases costs especially when possibly only 10% of members, like voting each year, would really read them anyway and the potential of anything happening to them as seen by a person putting a bastardised edited copy of our Ops manual up on a website out there.

 

Please, it you want a copy of the financials just contact the Treasurer

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Please don't say that everyone should get a copy of the financial statements as they are ALWAYS available to any member who wants a copy by simply asking...sending out a copy to all members increases costs

And the cost of putting a PDF file on the website?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Perhaps they could leave the fees as is and stop sending the Ra-Aus mag to every member. I would be happy to buy my own from the Newsagent and save Ra-Aus the cost of postage...

How much of our fee actually goes to the magazine? In any case, we don't need a full magazine every month. Make it bi-monthly or even quarterly, with a newsletter in between. (Like AOPA "Pilot Extra")

 

 

[Admin]

And the cost of putting a PDF file on the website?

Not much other then the costs associated with then administering logins and cancelling logins, communication of logins, software etc to allow "only current financial members" to access it

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

allow "only current financial members" to access it

Why, do we have something to hide? If the press or anyone on PPrune wants to know, they will find a way to find out anyway...