URGENT - need your advice on RAAus fee increases

[Admin]

Not sure but I think the term "Current Financial Member" is the term used in the constitution where a person has the right to access the information

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I don't think it does; the only reference I can find to release of financial statements is:

 

The Treasurer shall submit a financial statement and profit and loss statement for thefinancial year ending prior to every annual general meeting at least 14 days prior to the

meeting.

In any case, an updated website that is "member aware" would be a great asset. It shouldn't cost the earth, RA-Aus probably just needs to get better at mobilising volunteers and corporate sponsors.

[Admin]

Bas, I offered, and offered, and offered but not accepted...not even a reply and who else on the board has the skills in website development ????...politics

 

Anyway

 

 

[Keith Page]

We must have fee increases as there are hidden cost involved with development, got to face it R.A.Aus is growing.

 

e.g.The cost of a full time postion which was filled by a part time/volunteer person.

 

What we must be aware of is the unanounced compliance costs. A good example is:- A Casa requirement that flying school get inspected and plus what else is there still to be anounced.

 

R.A.Aus is evolving to a great organisation hence we must facilitate the growth by having sufficient funds to enhance this development.

 

There must be development before there is any return, hence be wise with development which is under taken.

 

 

[P4D]

What is the financial reasoning for the increase? How will it affect the operational budget? Does it agree with the P & L projections? What does the constuitution say regarding sources of revenue? How can anyone agree with what appears on the surface to be a money grab but equally may be significantly underfunding the operations. An uninformed decision is worse than no decision. My2cworth

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...Please, it you want a copy of the financials just contact the Treasurer

Ian; I don't think a balance sheet and profit / loss statement is going to be too illuminating in terms of the discussion in this thread. The expenditure would have to be categorised in line with services, which may not even be captured in the accounts even before it is rolled up. That lower level of detail is not appropriate for public consumption, but can assist a board to identify the big cost areas. The costs alone do not help this discussion without a detailed understanding of the processes those costs are supporting.

 

That is what we pay the administration to do, but maybe the board needs to prompt a review of operational procedures in the high cost areas and separately a review of fees against the cost of provision of those services. There is, as you have said, then political views on those relationships... that is just life;) Even if it does not result in a change, it would be good for the organisation to understand its fee structure and the rationale supporting it. That level of information could be published for members.

 

As with many things, take an 80/20 approach. There isn't much benefit in spending a lot of time analysing the smallest cost items. That said, I always ask people who propose an 80/20 approach if they would be happy if their bank took that approach to maintaining the record of their bank balance! Appropriate application of the approach is also important.

 

The place to start, I suspect, is whether there is a clear rationale for the fee structure or whether it has just arrived at its current state through many ad-hoc decisions and changes over many years.

 

As with any change, you need to understand the current situation and the desired situation in order to plan how to get from the former to the latter.

 

 

[Admin]

Guys, please don't shoot the messenger as Sgt Shultz would say "I know nutting" but only giving you the chance to see what has been provided to me as a "proposal" at this point in time. However, yes I have been given the financials but have yet to study them with supporting information which I will derive from the board meeting as at this stage it is just all numbers on a sheet of paper.

 

The absolute best solution for any member to really know what that supporting information is and to get it all first hand and hear comments/discussions etc is to attend the board meeting as an RAAus member but I know that is not possible for many so I can only go to the board meeting armed with your comments in preparation of those discussions and try my best to act on your behalf with that prior information as limited as it may be.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

My "official" comment to the board would then be: yes. The increases don't seem to be excessive; I already spend thousands every year on flying, I think I can afford the extra $10 every year for my renewal.

 

Speaking of renewals, with ten thousand of us and only about 200 working days in a year for the membership manager, that's manually processing 50 renewals every day. Add to that license upgrades, ASICs, administration of L2s, instructors, schools... I wonder how they code. We need to automate this stuff to keep it efficient. The people currently employed to do this can then spend a significant amount of their time doing more useful things.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Not sure but I think the term "Current Financial Member" is the term used in the constitution where a person has the right to access the information

Ian;

 

That is so the Board cannot hide the financial position from members. (Even if the clause was not present, it is still a requirement of the Associations Act, so it cannot be removed legally, even if it is removed physically). It does not imply or require the financial position be hidden from anyone. Thus there is nothing in the constitution that says the annual financial statements cannot be publicly published. It is simply a position that has been taken by the Board / Administration. There may not even be a formal ratified decision behind it!

 

Quite a few "associations" publish the annual report and financial statements... some examples:-

 

• http://www.healtheconomics.org/d/ihea_financials_05.pdf
   
   
  
• Australian Web Industry Association » documents
   
   
  
• Minutes of Annual General Meeting » Friends of OpenDocument Inc
   
   
  
• http://www.orangutan.org.au/assets/repository/members/AOPFinancialStatement07-08.pdf
   
   
  

 

 

Note that none of them are "bureaucracies". Bureaucracies always have an irrational fear of release of any information that they aren't forced to release, but usually are unable to provide cogent concrete reasons for that fear..

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...Speaking of renewals, with ten thousand of us and only about 200 working days in a year for the membership manager, that's manually processing 50 renewals every day. Add to that license upgrades, ASICs, administration of L2s, instructors, schools... I wonder how they code. We need to automate this stuff to keep it efficient. The people currently employed to do this can then spend a significant amount of their time doing more useful things.

Spot on Bas.

 

There's no reason that members cannot opt to receive reminders by email in lieu of snail mail and separately to renew on-line using credit card or direct credit. Granted that there will be a reasonable percentage of members who aren't on the Internet or otherwise still want snail mail, but it would lighten the load.

 

Note that I'm a refusenik when it comes to "Direct Debit". I just don't like signing blank cheques to organisations that say "trust me:big_grin:", even if they offer a discount for uptake of that option.

 

 

[Relfy]

Ian,

 

I can wear the increase in member fee by $10 but would like to see something negotiated ie. increased insurance cover, preserving airfield funds etc for the extra $20 annual aircraft rego fee. My two cents.

 

Regards,

 

Relfy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Spot on Bas.There's no reason that members cannot opt to receive reminders by email in lieu of snail mail and separately to renew on-line using credit card or direct credit. Granted that there will be a reasonable percentage of members who aren't on the Internet or otherwise still want snail mail, but it would lighten the load.

 

Note that I'm a refusenik when it comes to "Direct Debit". I just don't like signing blank cheques to organisations that say "trust me:big_grin:", even if they offer a discount for uptake of that option.

Ummm unless Im missunderstanding you the ability to pay by CC online has been available for many years. I suspect, but cant prove it, that the online option we have just collects the info and the office management team then do it manually next morning. There isnt anything to suggest that a payment gateway is being used etc and the renewal always comes with a thermal paper receipt suggesting the machine on the desk got a thrashing...

 

Andy

 

 

[Admin]

PLEASE can we keep this thread on the subject

 

 

[Powerin]

From the RAAus constitution....

 

 

 

36. Inspection of books.

 

The records, books and other documents of the Association shall be open to inspection at a place

 

in the ACT, free of charge, by a Member of the Association on request at any reasonable hour.

 

 

[Yenn]

I think the fee increases were inevitable, they have been static for a long while. I consider that the inreases for instructors would be better left alone. I don't know of any instructors who make much money out of their instructing and as they are the path to new members I consider they should be encouraged not milked.

 

 

[Ed Herring]

Hey Yenn...... Ditto...!

 

Ed

 

 

[David F]

Financial reporting

 

Not wishing to wring its neck but a little more transparancy would be appreciated.

 

Dave

 

 

[facthunter]

New Fees increase .

 

Given the time frame, the "increases", being more or less uniform are probably only an adjustment for inflation and the loss of value of our money. One could have hoped for some economies of scale as our numbers increase and that may be able to be produced with adjustments to the system (Streamlining).

 

Since we did not see a problem with the "balance" of the cost for service, up till now, I don't see why there is an issue at this time, since THAT is not altered, significantly. ANY flying school that is making money must be doing a lot of things right, so unless there is a new cost to the organisation involved I don't see why the schools should cop any more charges, above the norm.

 

David , the RAAus ASIC is cheaper than any other that I know of and seems to be at least as quick. I have no idea whether there is unnecessary duplication, but would believe that it would be evident if there was. (No harm in checking though.) Nev

 

 

[moz]

Increases V Savings

 

Happy of course for someone to provide a case for increasing fees, however how about looking at where they can be reduced also. One big one must surely be the magazine. I notice SAAA has theirs online. It must be a huge cost for RAAus to produce & post out. I personally don't get that much out of it so I'd be happy to forgo it.

 

I also often wonder about how the different sport aviation bodies can combine to save money. e.g. the SAAA, ASRA, RAAus, Warbirds, Antique aircraft groups all have administrative functions albiet to different pieces of legislation. How about getting together and reducing the duplication to save costs overall??...

 

 

[Yenn]

I wasn't aware that the SAAA magazine was on line. I get a hard copy. Their fees have gone up or are about to go up appreciably.

 

 

[moz]

Magazine

 

A while ago I was a member of a GA flying club their annual costs for a monthly newsletter were (I think) around $6000. They eventually decided to do it electronically, but still offer the paper version to those who want it. Only difference is that if you want the paper version you now pay an extra levy on top of the standard membership fee.

 

 

[sleemanj]

Ian;Quite a few "associations" publish the annual report and financial statements... some examples.

Interestingly off topic but for point of reference, as a NZ'r I find it quite strange that RAAus doesn't publish financials publically, because here an incorporated society (which is what RAANZ is, along with most clubs) is legally required to publish it's financials at a minimum by way of providing them to the government where on they are made freely available to anybody on the web, takes all of ten seconds to get them in PDF format from Societies and Trusts — HomePage, and RAANZ publishes them on their website anyway.

 

RAANZ also publishes it's full training manual on it's website, with no restriction on who can get to it, as does the "competing" organisation, SAC.

 

In my time observing the various RAAus threads here, I've often been surprised at the seeming "business" nature of RAAus, rather than the more "social" (or perhaps socialist) nature we have here.

 

Anyway, idle 2 AM musings, back to your regularly scheduled thread topic.