Fighting the Red Baron

[Guest ozzie]

SBS 10pm tonight (21st)

 

Two modern day fighter pilots step back in time and have a go at how it was done in WW1.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thanks Ozzie, i would have missed that.Cheers

 

 

[winsor68]

Thanks Ozzie.

 

 

[farri]

:drums: We`ll have to make Ozzie our official,Programs Anouncer.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I would have missed it as well 'cept i stumbled across it on pprune. hope their right as i don't have a guide.

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi Ozzie,

 

Watched it last night. Good programme. Wow - you really have to admire those pioneering guys! I just love the old planes.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I really can't figure out why anyone would want to spin so much mass around on the front of an aircraft with those rotary type engines. they must have been a dog to get them to turn against those forces. such niceties friendly wave before one opens up with both barrells of the shotgun. such sportsmanship!

 

 

[dazza 38]

I watched it today, recorded.Thanks again Ozzie. Great show.

 

 

[facthunter]

my feelings. red Baron.

 

Gotta be honest, I thought that there was a fair bit of hype. The aircraft were nice to see and running rotaries are something else.

 

Ozzie they only ran at about 1100 rpm and swung a very large prop so getting airborne and initial climb rate was good. 110 HP was considered a "big" engine before about 1915., but the rotaries had a lot of torque as they were big in capacity and light weight (comparatively) The Sopwith Camel was a handfull for pilots who had not experienced gyroscopic precession before,( to the extent it made it's presence felt in the Camel ) but was used to advantage in dogfights to manoeuver quickly, once pilots got the hang of it.

 

The SE5 had a british built version of a Hispano-Suiza V8 built by Wolseley/Austin. that wasn't too good. There was a very good example in the War Museum in Canberra last time I was there. (complete aircraft).Nev

 

 

[stanzahero]

The camel was an interesting machine. The British lost almost as many pilots in accidents as they did in combat.

 

It had a mean roll rate one way but not the other...

 

The SE5a was a lot more stable and forgiving for inexperienced pilots which was why it was popular.

 

Stanzahero.

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

Great show well worth staying up for.

 

 

[winsor68]

I don't mean to rock the boat but... I thought it was rather bad.

 

Sorry.

 

 

[farri]

I watched it on the net (SBS website) and was deeply moved by the tragedy that was WWI. The British Ace Ball, dead at 20 years of age. Half mad from killing 67 enemy pilots. Posthumous VC and Legion of Honour. Poor kid.

I watched a couple of bits but switched off because I find war so sad and such a tragedy,so much suffering to so many people,not only the pilots.

 

A bit off topic...But....My father wanted to be a pilot,war stoped that when the Germans took over the country,he and a mate had to stand in a line up,where every tenth person was taken out and shot,his mate panicked and ran and was shot in the back,I`m here because dad wasn`t the tenth person.

 

I`ve wondered many times why I got the flying bug, maybe???, but I put my flying skills to peacefull purposes.

 

Have humans learnt anything other than better ways of killing each other in the name of peace.

 

I have a son and two teenage grandsons and I join BlackRod in sympathy for all those men,young and old, lost and still being lost in futile wars.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

I appears to me that all wars are mostly about power and money.

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

War.

 

War has to be the most profound expression of human madness devised. You get your best young men and Kill them off, inflame hatreds for centuries and destroy the structures of civilization. Books etc. Nobody wins.

 

I feel sorry for your ancestors Frank. The average Italian had no truck with the war and didn't support Mussolini. I had a friend years ago who was a POW in Libya. In the to and fro of the African campain eventually he was released and later got to a situation where the tide had turned against Rommel, and the brits etc captured a lot of Italians and their equipment. Some largish Fiats " Fix IT Again Tony", (had to get that in), needed a bit of TLC to get them running and our mob weren't familiar with them. The Italians, who were POW's, then were quite happy to spanner them and keep them running. Cheers Nev

 

 

[farri]

In my opinion, peace can not be created at the point of a gun,peace will only occure when all people refuse to pick up a gun.

 

We change the world by changing ourselves,We must teach this to our children.

 

Frank.

 

Ps,This just came to mind.

 

My father did get to fly,With me, and still does at 85,my mother and the rest of my family also and my mother inlaw who was in her seventies and had never been in the air in her life ,was my first passenger in the aircraft that I built,way back when,she was the bravest of all.

 

Arn`t we lucky to be able to do this.

 

 

[facthunter]

The message.

 

You should carry the day by force of logic and argument, not by FORCE. There is unfortunately a thing called indoctrination based on misinformation where people are not allowed to get the truth. Many see freedom as a bad thing. Hate and mistrust are fostered and "away we go again". If I taught my kids to just "turn the other cheek", would they just become an easy conquest? I have seen plenty of situations where "Good guys come last". ( At least they can look at themselves in the mirror.) Nev

 

 

[farri]

If I taught my kids to just "turn the other cheek", would they just become an easy conquest? Nev

Good and important question.

 

Because total peace appears to be nothing but an ideal,Self defence is justifiable,but to what extent ?

 

Frank.

 

 

[dazza 38]

It is sad, when you find out how Young these Pilots were.In the prime of their youth.If they survived it.They are scarred for life, with the memories.A bit off topic, but their was a German WW2 pilot, who flew BF109,s. He was 14 years old Not a misprint.14.They were runing out of people to turn into pilots, i guess.He is still alive,cant remember him name though.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Good show, thank you Ozzie. I enjoyed it to a point, however these 'modern' shows seem to warp what actually happened, ever so slightly. If they keep going like this, a show about the air war in WW1 in 100 years, won't be anything like what actually happened at all !!.

 

Case in point :They made a big deal about Ball sneaking up and making his attack from below. That was actually a trick developed and perfected by Richtoven after finding that the Triplane had a unique ability to pull up vertically, and hang for a few seconds on its prop. If Ball used that manouver he probabily stole it from Richtoven, i do believe Ball was a fine pilot and he had to be to survive so long in that arena. The baron was from Prussian nobility, and initially he demonstrated much chivilary with his openents, as was the fashion for nobilityof the day. In many of his early encounters he would appear beside his foe in the scarlet triplane, salute, and dissappear. Often shortly thereafter his foe would feel his bullets. Mid way through his career he got hit with a grazing bullet on the skull, and spent a few weeks in hospital in Berlin. He was never the same after that, and it was just a matter of time before he too fell as a victim. After his injury he dropped the chivilary, and would just stand the triplane vertically and shoot them in the axxx !. Many of his later kills never even knew he was there until they got hit.. He also had the nasty habit of hanging around the opposition airfields and getting them right after takeoff , when they were most vulnurable. He was a hunter, and was simply looking for the thrill of the kill, as he often did hunting wild boar during his off time in the Black forrest with his father.

 

I found it interesting that the two modern day jet pilots adapted well to the old WW1 aircraft, and obviously enjoyed every moment of it..

 

I have the greatest respect for those early aviators, have read many books about them, and often wish I had be born 60 years earlier !................................................Maj