A while between navs...

[Guest burbles1]

Well, I restarted my navs for the second time at Polo Flat today (it's a long story, first Bathurst then Jaspers; it's been six months in the making so far). I couldn't say that the leg from Merimbula to Bombala was my best (okay, it was my worst reckoning) but after 2 months out of the saddle I was obviously going to be off-peak.

 

I was overly optimistic with my flight planning and estimated an airspeed of 90 knots. Turned out that this Jab 170 climbs like a three-toed sloth and I was doing 70-75 knots for a considerable distance after the turns, and a peak of 90 knots with a tailwind! Think I'll estimate 80 knots airspeed for tomorrow's dual so that my times aren't out so much.

 

It was unexpected that I got a strong southerly at 7500 ft - it was in the ARFOR for 10000 ft, but not 7500. (I was wondering if I should have accounted for that drift.)

 

So, looking forward to Jindabyne then Moruya tomorrow (and hopefully solo after that!)

 

 

[facthunter]

Nav. debrief.

 

Fella's these navs are expensive and to get the most out of them have a brutally honest debrief with your instructor afterwards. use him/her up. Throw your ego out of the clubroom door (General statement not directed at the above particularly). and confess all your fears and moments where things were not happening with the surety that you might like. You won't hide much from a good instructor anyhow.. Sometimes you might fluke what looks like an easy run but if you don't follow up it may be a lost opportunity. You don't get a lot of dual nav practice.

 

When you are qualified, later,maybe try to do a few x/c trips with a pilot in a similar situation to you training -wise. Plan together and bounce things off each other, particularly with regard to weather. Nominate who is PIC (ONE does the work once you get going) in the air, and the other does not offer so much help/interference that the exercise is not valid. If you get back and have some points of contention as to how something should have been done go back to your instructor or some reliable reference book straight away.

 

You always learn something from a cross-country, if you are honest with yourself.... Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I dont know about everyone else, but i have found, the planned track making allowances for wind drift.Is NEVER that spot on.You have to make a slight heading change on the run. Its normal IMO.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Facthunter,

 

The debrief is so important I know. I did my second dual today - the leg from Moruya to Polo Flat was a shambles. Didn't start off directly over the airfield so was going to be 2nm off track right at the start, then had to dodge some cloud over the ranges so that put us way off (I should have made a timed diversion - head off 45 degrees off track for 5 minutes, then turn back 90 degrees for 5 minutes to get back on track). Then there are almost no features on that leg so my 6 minute markers were useless for nav. Ended up coming out of the ranges 15 miles north of Cooma - not my greatest accomplishment. It was a good experience - that shows the importance of maintaining heading in featureless terrain and to time ANY diversions off track.

 

But ... solo tomorrow!!

 

Blackrod, you've got it easy with navs along the coast. Try doing it over tiger country (that'll make a pilot out of you). My previous navs were along the south coast and I know how easy it is to check features against your markers.

 

 

[facthunter]

Flying Compass courses.

 

With the rotten compasses we mostly have. ( the average magnetic one is so useless unless the air is still) , a course based only onholding a compass heading isn't likely to produce very good results. You have to pick a feature on the horizon, or follow a known feature.

 

You fellows stick to what your Instructors have told you, so I speak only in general terms. One of the biggest mistakes is where an incorrect course is flown over unfamiliar territory. You lay off the wrong wind or apply deviation the wrong way when you recalculate in the air.(or much worse fly a distance as a heading )Tracks have to be verified fairly early in the piece, if you want to be sure that you are going the right way. These days I would plot a course on a WAC chart and use things like google map to recognise features on the way either side of your planned track. The compasses in the earlier Ex-military trainers were good enough to fly "under the hood" with. There is nothing like them available at a reasonable price today.

 

Proper planning makes the job come together just fine. Must Nav. stuff-ups start at the planning stage. Nev

 

 

[foxy]

a couple of thoughts to the above threads.

 

one thing i notice from the original post, was the reference to guessing the drift and speed of the aircraft.

 

for a nav to work in any situation, you need to follow the correct flight plan procedures. these being that the wind direction needs to be proplerly accounted for and the track and ground speed corrected from that. its no good just using your judgement, as this could het u into a power of trouble.

 

as for using the google maps to find the places to look for...a personal opinion of mine, is that whilst its a good idea...i dont think it makes for good navigation...as when you plan your nav, you read your map...its not 3D, so what you're looking for on your map, is not the same as what google maps will show you. the whole idea of map reading is so that you can navigate using that map as your primary source of navigation. the map is there to get you where you're going, using your own outside observations.

 

i also agree with listening to your instructor, however they teach your nav's as sticking to the one path of information is vital to your own learning. its easy to cloud your judgement with the multitude of information thats out there. stick to what you are being taught. it will keep you on the right path!

 

sorry for the length.

 

liz.

 

 

[deadstick]

Technique and rules of nav are tried and tested and often made after learning the hard way, that being said before any nav test on pilots course I would get a visual of the turn points and run in to the target with google earth you can move the point of view down to any height and it gives you the terrain picture, helped me out heaps but its only a prep tool and not a source of navigation.

 

DK

 

 

[facthunter]

reason for Google or such.

 

The WAC charts are used at the planning stage, to give you track and distance but they are not optimum for en-route use for many reasons, including lacking detail. I have found google earth a big help It is almost as if you have been there before. Don't forget that the "pathfinder" aircraft leading the bomber squadrons used photo recce pictures to find their way, same thing almost. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

Ive used Google earth Why not use it, it might be a top view.But as Nev has mention, it is like you have been there before, to a certain extent. Why not use every available option you have in preparation.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I learnt some hard lessons today. Did my first solo nav which was meant to be YPFT-Bermagui-YBOM-YJIN-YPFT. The weather cleared up very quickly around Cooma during the morning and by the time I took off there was almost no cloud. Unfortunately when I got over the range the cloud was BKN right to the coast. I could catch a glimpse of land now and then and maintained my heading within a few degrees (lucky I had an EFIS to keep heading). This got me to just south of Narooma. Lesson #1 - never fly in cloud more than SCT.

 

Right - fly down the coast to Bermagui to get a positive start point for the second leg. Got my first marker okay, then more BKN cloud so the best I could do was hold my heading. Came out south of Nimmitabel - don't ask me how. Assuming this was Bombala, I tracked for Jindabyne and was shocked to see Cooma on my right. At that stage I gave it away as a lost cause and headed back early.

 

I can only guess that it was wind drift that put me north of track for both legs, yet the ARFOR was VRB/15 @ 7000.

 

In the debriefing I got lesson #2 - if you come across BKN cloud, perhaps do a diversion to where it is CAVOK. So I should've headed straight for Bombala instead of flying blind.

 

Oh boy, it'll take another couple of duals at least before venturing out again.

 

But the training has been fantastic - with every change of training school I'm picking up a bit more useful info. It wasn't until I got to Polo Flat that I realised when you're ten miles past the start of each leg you can call Melbourne Centre and report position (and not just listen on the frequency). Cool.