Why don't FTFs update?

[Guest burbles1]

I've chopped and changed flying schools in the Sydney and Blue Mountains over the past two years trying to chase the right training. I look for the right aircraft first, then the right instructor. And I'd like to know why FTFs don't update their trainers. It's very dismaying. YKAT only has a Jab ST3, YHOX had an early model Jab and Tecnam, and I'm just as limited at The Oaks - where I'd like to fly but their Lightwing, Jab and Foxbat are early models with limited usable load. Only YBTH, YWOL and Jaspers have the aircraft I like.

 

How about more schools investing in LSA models, such as Jab 170, Foxbat A22LS and Brumby. That would open up greater interest from potential students and hirers I'm sure.

 

 

[nathanc]

I think the Oaks has a good variety of training aircraft considering the volume of students. Lightwing, Jabiru LSA55, Quicksilver, Foxbat... Also, the older LSA55 Jabirus make good training aircraft, according to the instructors, giving a good challenge to students. I recently enjoyed doing a tailwheel endorsement in the Lightwing. I would certainly recommend it. Even though it is not new, it does its job as a training aircraft magnificently.

 

Regards

 

Nathan

 

 

[Tomo]

Expense comes to mind. New may look flash, but learning to fly is the same in anything really. (to a certain degree of course)

 

Jaspers (I believe) lease their aircraft, which is a pretty good idea if you ask me, then when they're sick of that aircraft... swap if for another - one way to keep your stock fresh I suppose. (don't know if that works in reality, but it sound like a good idea!)

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I'd hate to disagree Tomo, but I'm going to. The problem with many trainers (especially the older ones) is that you're limited to legal or design MTOW. I would have done my navs at Katoomba were it not for the 450kg limit on their only aircraft, Jab ST3. Same for The Oaks - Jab LSA55 (450kg), Foxbat (I think about the same) and Lightwing (limited usable load until the 600kg rule comes in I believe). I'm one of those larger pilots (MTOW 120kg) who needs the higher usable load that LSA offers, especially for navs. If the rules and regs change, for flying's sake FTFs need to keep up. It is silly to keep plodding along with old aircraft that were designed under outdated rules. We need more private owners cross-hiring their new machines to schools (seems to work well in practice).i_dunno

 

 

[robinsm]

Hey Burbles,

 

I also have a MTOW of 120kg and have a rag and tube aircraft,( MTOW 490kg). Runs a 582 and has no problems lifting me and doing navs (Goulburn to Inverell and return, Leongatha to Goulburn etc). The lighter aircraft will handle you just as well. I have also taken passengers with not much change in performance (but only up to MTOW 490kg.)

 

Cheers

 

Maynard

 

 

[XP503]

The instructor you fly with is more important than what you are flying, although at Boonah we are bit spoilt for aircraft choice which makes things fun!

 

 

[Guest Toally87]

i'm a lucky one, my instructor has recently acquired a jab 170, and is running next to his gazelle...

 

and he's easy to get along with to boot

 

:-)

 

i'll get me by til i get me cheetah :-)

 

Toally

 

 

[farri]

I'd like to know why FTFs don't update their trainers. It's very dismaying. How about more schools investing in LSA models, such as Jab 170, Foxbat A22LS and Brumby.

Ok guys,if we`re talking about RAA schools,this one is easy.

 

How much do think the average FTF earns and how much would you like to pay for instruction or AC hire?

 

Been there done that and at a time of high demand and I can tell from experience that most are doing it for the passion not for the money,there`s a saying that I`m aware of, and it goes like this.

 

"If you want to make a small fortune out of aviation,then start off with a big one"

 

Modern AC are big $ to buy and maintain, not to mention the overheads of running a FTF.

 

Seen what most of the GA school still use? Mostly old cessna`s.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Acky]

I'd have to agree, a selection of the newer aircraft is much better in my opinion (as a student at the moment). I chose the school i'm flying at, based on their being a J160, J170, J230 available, rather than the other school that has the older Jabs, and a recently acquired J160. The J230 is a very appealing aircraft to me for some longer flights after all the training and navs. Also I'm towards the "more soild" end of the pilot spectrum!

 

I've done training in the J160 and J170 to date, and may work the J230 in a later date.

 

Having a ball tho ;) and i'm sure i would whatever i was flying.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

And here those easterners keep telling us South Australians everything is better over there, little do they know! Wherever you go in SA, you are spoilt for choice with new J170s, SportStars, Texans, Tecnams and the like. All of which would be very comfortable for you to fly.

 

So your question should be: Why don't Sydney FTF's update their aircraft? :P

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Another thought: why don't you buy your own, possibly forming a syndicate? That would solve your problem with a relatively low investment.

 

 

[farri]

Wherever you go in SA, you are spoilt for choice with new J170s, SportStars, Texans, Tecnams and the like. :P

Wow, The economy must be good in SA..:super:.....Look out I`m coming over.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Acky]

Just snuck 2 lessons in before work, 1 in J160, 1 in J170. Yep, gotta love the weather in SA at the moment too!

 

Not a bad way to spend a friday morning :) Instructor informs me i need to sit my pre-solo exam now too. Excited, yet so trepid at the same time.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Good stuff, Acky. Solo is where you really start learning (and start enjoying).

 

I've done all my RA training in Jabirus, and can definitely recommend J160 for ab initio, then J170 for navs (you can carry heaps of fuel), and move on to the J230 for general hire.

 

 

[T500]

money money money doesnt grow on trees I wish

 

If someone would like to give me $60.000 to $80.000 I'd love to up date my school with a new plane any offers????

 

It seems 85% of schools are running all HP aircraft and no LP aircraft

 

What happened to the LP aircraft ???

 

NOT all people want to get from point A to B in the quickest time.

 

Big Property owners prefer the slower aircraft (rag and tube in some cases) so they can check stock fences bores etc

 

The slow older aircraft has its good points

 

Took an (old) 1952 piper colt for a flight from geelong to morrabin top speed 80kts

 

was a dream to fly could actualy look at the view for a change instead of blink and it was gone

 

 

[bushpilot]

If someone would like to give me $60.000 to $80.000 I'd love to up date my school with a new plane any offers????It seems 85% of schools are running all HP aircraft and no LP aircraft

What happened to the LP aircraft ???

 

NOT all people want to get from point A to B in the quickest time.

 

Big Property owners prefer the slower aircraft (rag and tube in some cases) so they can check stock fences bores etc

 

The slow older aircraft has its good points

 

Took an (old) 1952 piper colt for a flight from geelong to morrabin top speed 80kts

 

was a dream to fly could actualy look at the view for a change instead of blink and it was gone

The Piper Colt was the first a/c I (co)owned - as a young lad back in '75. I agree - it was a dream. Did my PPL on it and the only thing you didnt get practice with was use of flaps! (It has none...).

 

There are a number of issues with training in LPs; for a busy school one of the reasons is the limited number of days that they can be flown - meaning lots of lesson cancellations. I know - I did my PPL to RAA conversion in one - and every second lesson was postphoned.. We can train on a HP on pretty well any day that a Cessna can be safely flown..

 

 

[pylon500]

You don't really need a newer plane, you just need a lighter instructor, then try something like a Foxbat or if you want to learn to fly a real aeroplane, try a Lightwing.

 

These modern 'thingeys' are too easy to fly.....

 

Arthur.

 

 

[Tomo]

There are a number of issues with training in LPs; for a busy school one of the reasons is the limited number of days that they can be flown - meaning lots of lesson cancellations. I know - I did my PPL to RAA conversion in one - and every second lesson was postphoned.. We can train on a HP on pretty well any day that a Cessna can be safely flown..

You just need a Drifter! They have better x wind capability than Jab's. If the X-wind is to much, just land the other way... I've flown ours in 35-40kt head winds - but I guess it'd make training a little interesting. i_dunno Particularly when the head wind is higher than the landing speed.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

you just need a lighter instructor[/color]

Just like LSA aircraft, jockey instructors are hard to come by. I'd like to try a Lightwing, but it's like those signs at the sideshow - you need to be this weight to go for a ride.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Tomo...You did what??? Did you say you flew a drifter in 40 kt winds??

 

 

[Tomo]

Tomo...You did what??? Did you say you flew a drifter in 40 kt winds??

Between 30 and 40 I reckon, why?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Lol. You need to ask why??.. I would ask you WHY?

 

 

[winsor68]

Tomo...You did what??? Did you say you flew a drifter in 40 kt winds??

I am guessing you haven't motz? Lol

 

 

[Tomo]

Lol. You need to ask why??.. I would ask you WHY?

Why not?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

40 kts winds, in a drifter...... I could give you a dozen reasons why its a bad idea. Can you give me one reason why you would?