Has regulation killed adventure ???

[mechfx]

I'm reading Nancy Birds book "My God! It's a woman. Half way through and its one of the best aviation books I've ever found.

 

Numerous amazing stories have been told so far but the one that has got me thinking is the almost unbelievable information that when Amy Johnson flew from England to Australia in 1929 she only had 100hrs solo flying time in her log book, had never flown further than 169 miles non stop and made it on 95 HP !!!!!

 

What chance would this story have of being told these days ?

 

 

[kaz3g]

Some quite amazing women managed to achieve absolutely amazing things in an era when most women were still expected to spend their lives breeding, cooking and sewing.

 

Sexism in aviation was the norm in Australia not so long ago:

 

1. While the English and US Governments jumped at the opportunity to utilise their women pilots in non-combat roles (eg ferry), only one out of a great many capable women pilots in Australia ever got to perform that role here;

 

2. It took Deborah Wardley a number of court actions and even more years to finally get a job as an airline captain in the face of Uncle Reg's blind obstinacy; and

 

3. Our Nancy established flying clinics in outback areas where women and children often died for want of basic medical attention.

 

Now the world has women Shuttle commanders but Australia's airports are closing one by one...

 

One day (sigh)

 

kaz

 

 

[Mick]

Amy Johnson flew from England to Australia in 1929 she only had 100hrs solo flying time in her log book, had never flown further than 169 miles non stop and made it on 95 HP !!!!!What chance would this story have of being told these days ?

Bert Hinkler flew from England to Australia using only an atlas for navagation. The atlas is in the Hinkler museum here in Bundaberg.

 

Could you imagine the reaction if you produced an atlas for Mr Casa during a ramp check!!!!!:ah_oh:

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Seems the only air adventures these days have been high-altitude round-the-world ballooning or round-the-world solar powered aircraft. The sad death of Steve Fosset has put an end to that. Maybe Richard Branson will take this forward with Virgin Galactic. And then when electric aircraft go into production, there'll be all sorts of endurance records come up that constitute "adventures" - highest, furthest, fastest...

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I was looking last week to see what sort of records have been set by RAAus aircraft. Could not find any. Does anyone know of point to point speed or time to height ect ect.

 

maybe the RAAus needs to align with the FAI.

 

 

[kevinfrost]

Try Scott Winton, I think he set at least 3 records. Pity he's not around still, we,ll never know what he advances in A/C design he could have come up with. We,re all flying because somebody risked there lives to prove a concept of design and I greatly appreciate that.

 

Listening to Dick Sith at Temora on his exployts in his chopper with relatively low hours under his belt, there was a fine line on a few occasions between him being called Dick Smith the adventurer or Dxxk head Smith. Those that heard the talk will know what I mean.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for his and the likes attitude but I do have a small problem with the cost of rescue when it goes wrong.

 

Perhaps the risk takers amongst us should be prepared to dig ourselves when the sxxt hits. Now that in it self would be an adventure

 

 

[Tomo]

"Regulation is killing common sense".

 

"No common sense hurts people"

 

"People getting hurt = more regulation"

 

And around it goes... hopefully we don't end up all zombies.

 

 

[The Wolf]

if someone wants to have a go at something and doesn't quite get it right then it's pretty small bucks to give them a hand

That's not scalable though, is it?

 

besides the really stupid ones usually end up in a hole in the ground and the ones that have a bit of adversity will try again and make the headlines in a good way

No, the stupid ones end up taking out everyone else. Just look at those "seeking adventure" on the roads. Few headlines say "Idiot kills himself, others OK though"

 

There is adventure out there, and there is no regulation stopping you from seeking it. Just out of interest, what regulations stopping adventure are you talking about? I dont see any. There is a difference between trying to see if something can be done, and just being plain stupid about how you go about it.

 

"Regulation is killing common sense"."No common sense hurts people"

 

"People getting hurt = more regulation"

 

And around it goes... hopefully we don't end up all zombies.

I dont see it as that though. In the early days of flying, it wasn't understood. So it came down to common sense, and taking precautions. The reality is now, we understand flight and how to do it. Common sense no longer applys, because there is an element of knowledge you require. Flying is a complex, expensive (relative) endevour. Just look at the horrid buckets that are on our roads when people are left to self regulation. Most Humans cannot and will not regulate themselves.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

How about that lone canoeist who perished so close to New Zealand? I saw a documentary about him - he had an insatiable adventurous spirit, but he was incredibly stupid for not taking enough precautions against capsizing - a 7.5kg liferaft would have saved his life (and his family's) and not have hindered his weight limitation that much. Be adventurous, but be sensible too.

 

 

[Yenn]

A couple of quick regulations stopping adventure. Boy Scouts are not allowed to build flying foxes in Qld, I built one for them when i was in the SES. It is illegal to scale the faces of tall buildings or to jump off them with a chute. Closer to home for me, I can no longer use a bosuns chair to work on the face of tall structures, nor can I legally climb up or down a rope at work, all things I did when I was working as a steeplejack.

 

 

[The Wolf]

Closer to home for me, I can no longer use a bosuns chair to work on the face of tall structures, nor can I legally climb up or down a rope at work, all things I did when I was working as a steeplejack.

That has nothing to do with killing adventure, it is about preventing you injuring yourself and claiming compensation.

Like climing up ropes? go absailing.

 

 

[The Wolf]

And I wouldn't call tear-assing around on the roads adventure, but it's exactly what I meant by the substitution of real adventure for what the young men of this day seem to go for, in the absence of real adventure we see young men killing them selves ,and others pursuing the rush they true adventure would have given. but sadly there are few new frontiers, not much undiscovered lands, the great oceans are crossed in a night very single day of the week by hundreds of aircraft, the internet delves into every minute details of every corner of this planet, till there's nothing to surprise, excite, frighten, nothing to overcome ,endure, or conquer, but still there is hope Everest will still kill you, the aussie outback will take the life of the unwary, and yes, a pilot can still fly across the the face of this planet feeling the same sensations as the pioneers ,I believe in adventure and I believe the lack of it makes for a sick human being, we are wired for and if we don't pursue in some form we will always feel a lacking in the depths of our soul,

I'm sorry, but i have no idea what "adventure" you are talking about then. You started off by saying that adventure was legislated against, now you are saying that everything has been discovered. bull! There are plenty of undiscovered fronteirs, you just cant think of them because they are undiscovered. was it 70% (or some number) of the ocean floor remains unmapped?. Hooning around in a car has nothing to do with "substituting adventure" it is a quick thrill, plain and simple. And you can go orienteering with the scouts!

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

This is graet read!

 

Isn't adventure doing something exiting?

 

This can be so many different things to different people. For us one of these things it is flying , for some it might be fishing.

 

The one thing that gets me is legislation in the extreme. Legislation is ok if it prevents us from doing harm to others but when it comes to ourselfs we should be able to decide. If I choose not to wear a helmet , a seatbelt , smoke etc - it's my choice . No legislation should stop me from doing so. I think that we legislate to protect us from ourself - not others. That sucks!

 

As a ten year old I used to go shooting with a 9mm pistol and carried it through the village. The cop would at times say something like " Walter - hope it isn't loaded" to wich I would reply " no - just going shooting to the range " . we used to make black powder with help from the local chemist. Riding bikes without helmets and flying remote controlled planes without a licence , pools didn't have fences and playing in the creek was fun.

 

Things were legal and "fun and adventure" was encouraged.

 

Guess the focus was on fun. These days the focus is on "what might happen" ie: fear.

 

At least when flying we have more fun than most and we are in charge to a higher degree than with most other acivities I can think off. Long may it continue.

 

fly safe

 

Walter

 

 

[Spin]

Interesting thread and doubly interesting to see how much nostalgia people have for their own upbringing. I'm the same, I grew up in a small town and had freedom todays kids can only dream about. Later on I ended up at boarding school out in the country and come Sundays we were required to be off the school estate, hiking on surrounding farms or riding the 25 odd km to the nearest bit of civilisation where we were likely to see girls. We got up to all sorts, a few of the more enterprising arranged lifts to the beach, about 2 hours away, while others had access to motor cycles and made their own way there. Guess what, in the time I was there no-one was killed or maimed despite leaping off waterfalls, falling off bicycles, horses and utes, in fact the worst injuries came from the headmaster after some idiot rolled in reeking of cigarette smoke, or got busted thumbing a lift back on Sunday evening.:black_eye:

 

Unfortunately we cannot turn the clock back and attitudes have changed. I have a fair amount to do with personal injury claims these days and let me tell you, let little Johnny disobey an instruction on the school adventure trip, injuring himself as a consequence and you'll have the parents come down on all involved like the proverbial avenging angels. Funnily enough life threatening injuries (allegedly) become far less important than the money they are worth, once negotiations begin. A few thousand dollars can act as a remarkably soothing balm for wounded feelings.

 

Long story short, appreciate what we had and treasure what we have left. You have only to read JG3's stories of outback exploration to appreciate that adventures may have changed, but they are still to be found for those that want it badly enough. Something that struck me about John's writing though is that there is an appreciation of the dangers and just as importantly the potential pitfalls of having to involve the authorities in a rescue. Epirbs and the like are wonderful tools, but they come at a cost.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Glad i grew up in the period i did. fuelled on by the 'space race' we built lots of toys. home made mini bikes and go karts. roamed the country side around my grandparents farm with my adventurous cousins. fantastic cracker nights, had my own .22 winchester rifle at 13. several years in the army cadets at school taught me good bush and survival skills. walked to school, caught the train and bus by myself and never had a problem. never needed 'mummy' to come and save me from their fears. the early days of jumping, self taught hang gliding and minimum aircraft were great periods. The only thing i need saving from is the peckerheads that have a vested interest in preventing me from making the most of my life. That reminds me recieved the latest RAAus magazine yesterday same @#@@ just different photo on the cover. only interesting reading in it was Steve Bell's column. Ahh well this is what happens in life when you leave it up to the 'experts' to decide what is best.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Funnily enough life threatening injuries (allegedly) become far less important than the money they are worth, once negotiations begin. A few thousand dollars can act as a remarkably soothing balm for wounded feelings.

And there in lies the problem.

 

 

[Tomo]

And there in lies the problem.

Heard on the radio today, something about a daughter trying to sue (?) her parents for something that happened to her when she was younger.

 

Selfishness or a flawed law system???

 

Parents may need to start printing stickers out to stick everywhere - "Kid's brought up at their own risk" - so they can be covered!!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Regulations (or those who make them) do their best to kill adventure......but the real true believers will always find a way !.......................................................Maj...

 

 

[gregrobertson]

If any one is interested in reading some real Australian flying adventure stories get hold of "Flying Doctor" by Clyde Fenton. Clyde was one of the original flying doctors and opperated out of katherine in the NT. He didn't have a lot of time for regulations either. A great read.

 

Greg

 

 

[farri]

Glad i grew up in the period i did.The only thing i need saving from is the peckerheads that have a vested interest in preventing me from making the most of my life.

Good onya Ozzie,I know what you mean,I did some of the things you mentioned,and a hell of a lot more.

 

I`ve always done my own thing,still do,don`t regret it and proud of it,never needed anyone to save me from myself and doubt that I ever will.

 

I`m not sure that regulation has killed adventure but it sure as hell has taken some of the fun out of it,however, I believe that those who truely want to do something,will go ahead no matter what is in their way.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, To quote you, "Those who say something can`t be done,shouldn`t get in the way of those doing it".

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

if you are feeling guilty then you must be having fun!

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Greg,

 

Do you have the book Flying Doctor? Would you like to send it to me? Sounds interesting.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...Parents may need to start printing stickers out to stick everywhere - "Kid's brought up at their own risk" - so they can be covered!!

One ponders where they should be displayed.i_dunno There has been at least one case in the news of a child suing parents for behaviour during pregnancy that resulted in a lifelong disability. I don't recall the details but it was behaviour that a reasonable person might avoid as being a hazard to a foetus. It may have been excessive consumption of alcohol, for which there is known to be no safe level during pregnancy.

 

 

[Guest Dick Gower]

Not necessarily burbles1. There is still some high adventure around. Try instructing x-wind landings at maximum XWC!

 

 

[Tomo]

Try instructing x-wind landings at maximum XWC!

Would that be adventure, or terror?