Where to get a conversion from RAA to GA

[Adrian Lewer]

Thanks Dick, yes Ian was lapping it up, if he keeps it simple like that he will be a great instructor. I think his neck was hurting by the end of the session as you had to keep pulling on the chain to make him slow down :) .

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

[poteroo]

If it makes you feel any better, I have never done a GA to RAA conversion (on jabiru's) that took any less than 10 hours. Cessna's and the like are designed to be easy to fly, once GA guys jump in a jab or similar, they realise that the aircraft is flying them. It takes some time to get things happening. oh, and they are normally shocked to find out that the pedals on the floor aren't footrest's.

Don't be disheartened.

 

cheers

That's different from our experience Merv, and we use a J-160 too. IMHO,it's more the case that if the pilot isn't in current flying skill - then they'll have great difficulty. I've had a few PPL's with low TT and low currency who have given up after 6-8 hrs on the J-160. But I've also converted a few current GA instructors who've mastered it within 2-3 hrs. My last conversion did it to my satisfaction in under 2 hrs. To be fair though, he's a very current CPL with 12k+ expce.

 

It's been the same with t/w conversions - of which I've done over 100 in GA. A pilot who can fly the aircraft in balance and speed control, from steep L thru to steep R turns, ie,who knows the R from the L rudder - will convert quite quickly. Those who can't, and who don't know the meaning of 'straight' - are condemned to struggle.

 

happy days,

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

In all fairness to Motz, he taught me from soon after my conversion from a Piper Warrior. I was so used to the rock-solid feel of the Piper that I was so heavy-handed with the Jab 160 and couldn't get used to using rudder pedals, I felt that it took me around 10 hours to "come down" to the lighter feel of the Jab.

 

 

[Tomo]

And on another point even RAA pilots are required to have either an AVID or an ASIC or they are not flying legally. It is required regardless of pilot qualification unless flying dual to my understanding. Is that your understanding as well?

David.

Don't think that is correct though, I'm pretty sure You don't need an ASIC to fly an aircraft - only if you're operating out of security airports.

 

I had my RAA license quite a while before I obtained an ASIC.

 

CASA have just made it a pain, and you need an ASIC to get a Student license.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, so I was trying to make the threadstarter feel better, but no david im not pulling your leg, the average would be between 5 and 10 hours. Some take even longer. But ive only converted about 20 PPl holders, so maybe ive just had a bad bunch.

 

And thanx for the overcharging comments, much appreciated.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

fair enuff David.

 

 

[Spin]

Tomo,I said an AVID OR and ASIC. ASIC for any airport that has RPT and an AVID for identification anywhere else. You do NOT have to have an ASIC for a student license unless your training is done into RPT airports wher you are required to fly SOLO, but you must have at least an AVID for any license where you are the PIC regardless of airport type. I am sure that is correct. Can someone who knows confirm that please.

David

David, that would certainly be news to people north of the banana curtain, I don't know anyone (RA) that has either an ASIC or AVID, unless they frequent RPT airports.

 

 

[dazza 38]

i dont have either a ASIC or AVID, must be able to get away without one in QLD.

 

 

[djpacro]

If you want to use your CASA issued flight crew licence and you do not require frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has RPT operations, you must apply for a background security check and you will be issued with an AVID provided your checks are successful. This does not apply if you are under 18.

You need a valid ASIC if you require frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has Regular Public Transport (RPT) operations.

More CASA info here. But please don't blame CASA for this one, Tomo. If you go here

Fact Sheet 13: Aviation Security Identification Cards (ASICs) you should find an exemption for little aeroplanes unless going to a security controlled airport.

 

Yes, you can get away with stuff if there's no-one around to check. I don't have an interest in checking AVIDs and ASICs unless some-one wants me let them go in one of our aeroplanes as the CASA licence is not valid without it.

 

 

[Tomo]

you do not need to apply for a background security check until you turn 18.

I find that quite Ironic.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

And on another point even RAA pilots are required to have either an AVID or an ASIC or they are not flying legally. It is required regardless of pilot qualification unless flying dual to my understanding. Is that your understanding as well?David.

I don't believe this is correct David - there is no requirement for RAA pilots to have an AVID even if they don't hold an ASIC. If fact, I think you need to have a CASA licence (PPL or SPL) and a medical before you can get an AVID

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS see the FAQ link you posted - section about medicals

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Crezzi is correct - RA pilots don't need an ASIC UNLESS they operate at security-controlled aerodromes. I have an ASIC only because I needed one when learning at YWOL.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If it makes you feel any better, I have never done a GA to RAA conversion (on jabiru's) that took any less than 10 hours.

Seriously? One guy got sent loose in my aircraft recently after 1.3. That was doing a bit of training work in the area, then three circuits, all unassisted and he was off solo. Went on a long-ish nav and back to get his 5 hours and done.

The difference between this guy and "normal" PPLs is that he was a recent PPL with a very high number of glider hours. (including instructing)

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

So the RA to GA process is basically this:

[*]get a student pilot licence and ARN

 

[*]get an ASIC or AVID (explanation at rvac.com.au/frequently-asked-questions you need one or the other)

 

[*]pass the BAK

 

[*]pass the PPL exam

 

[*]get your student licence endorsed for the GA aircraft type which means being able to demonstrate proficiency in the basics such as PFLs, crosswinds etc.

 

[*]pass the GFPT but you may elect to bypass this and go straight to the NAVs to complete the PPL. (after the GFPT you still only have a student licence.)

 

[*]get up to standard with the NAVs

That seems .. a lot. My GA CFI (and ATO and RA CFI) is happy for me not to have an SPL, not have to do GFPT, no BAK (only PPL exam) and unlikely to do much in the way of NAVs.

Flying wise: just get used to the aircraft, do 2 hours instrument flying, recommendation flight and the test.

 

I have to say that I am already proficient in CTA as I fly out of Parafield under a CASA exemption for the school. I can imagine someone wanting CTA on their PPL will need a bit more training.

 

Your list seems to miss the item called Class 2 medical. :)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Well if we are quoting conversion times, hows this one. Sent a guy solo yesterday. Hes a ppl holder, been flying for 18 years. Done around 12 hours conversion training in the jabs. He did 3 ccts and when he was stopping on his last one he locked the brakes on the wet grass and slid off into a drain and destroyed the prop.

 

Quick conversions would certainly be the exception rather than the rule. Types flown and hours on 'tricky' types is a huge factor.

 

1.3 hours total time on ultralights?.. I spend that long just on stalling when converting.

 

The lack of inertia and high wing loading on some of the jab models takes time to get the hang of.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

1.3 hours total time on ultralights?.. I spend that long just on stalling when converting.

He demonstrated some stalls and a PFL too. I don't think there's too much you can teach a glider pilot on those subjects; those guys have to do spin recovery before they are sent solo and PFLs are all about judging your glide path correctly. I think they've done that before too!

So yeah, this guy wasn't your usual PPL conversion...

 

The lack of inertia and high wing loading on some of the jab models takes time to get the hang of.

I have flown a Jab briefly from the right seat once. And it's completely legal for me to buy one and fly it away with no further instruction. To be honest, given the choice between a Jab with no further instruction and a C172 - I'd take my chances with the 172!

Have you done any conversions from PPL to GA in the SportStar? While it's as twitchy and low-inertia as any RA aircraft, it has everything pretty much in the same place a Cessna jock would expect it and like the Cessnas, I don't think you need to work as hard to get it to do what you want as with a Jab. Based on my little experience in those...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hey Bass.

 

Yes, I did a few conversions while we had the Sportstar online. Most guys took to it quickly, although it can be a little quirky in the flair (as you would know) any movement forward on the stick will stuff the landing completely.

 

The other thing is the picture. With that great visibility the attitude could take some getting used to.

 

The thing that took the most practice (generally) was the PFL's. The sporty's a slippery little bugga and glides very well. The flap only being split flap and the sideslip not overly affective meant that most guys were too high more often than not.

 

I recall doing a BFR with a 747 skippa who flew all sorts of low wing sporty types, he had never flown a sportstar however. He had about 4 goes at the PFL before he worked it out. He said, "oh, I get it, ya just have to fly away for a scenic for a while, then come back to the paddock.."hehe

 

It could get a little more interesting in the stall aswell. You could make it do some very strange things, ie, held at the right attitude it would slowly yaw to the right with no roll, we could d a 180 flat turn in the stall in about 30 seconds.

 

I was interested to see what was happenig to the airflow in the stall so we did a strip test (taped some ribbons to the wing).

 

Some of that experiment is on this video

 

 

Cheers