Spitfire down near Gympie

[Spin]

Just heard on the news that a Spitfire replica crashed near Gympie. Sadly initial reports aren't very positive.

 

 

[Spin]

From the Courier Mail;

 

A MAN is dead after a plane crashed near Gympie about 4pm.

 

It is believed the plane came down on Lagoon Pocket Rd, Lagoon Pocket near Gympie Aerodrome.

 

"Details are sketchy at this stage," a Department of Community Services said.

 

"There's believed to be one person in the wreckage, deceased."

 

It is not known if anyone else has been injured.

 

A Queensland Ambulance Service spokeswoman said only one passenger was aboard the two-seater aircraft.

 

Ray Gresham lives about 800m from the crash site and was watching the plane moments before it crashed.

 

He said the pilot, a man who looked to be in his 60s, and was likely flying his own recreational plane, a three-quarter Spitfire.

 

"It would seem as though he spun into the ground on the final as he was coming into land," Mr Gresham said.

 

"I heard it on the downwind, just before he came into land.

 

"Only about a minute before he lost control I was actually watching him and then I walked back into the house."

 

Mr Gresham, who has lived at the aerodrome for 37 years, said it was only the second crash he had seen..

 

He said the plane did not appear too badly damaged from a distance but must have sustained considerable damage as it spun out of control.

 

Police are securing the scene before Recreational Aviation Australia accident investigators move in.

 

Australian Transport Safety Bureau senior investigator Richard Batt said the Spitfire was a popular "sport aviation aircraft" but there was "no reason to believe that they are less safe than other aircraft".

 

Gympie Aero Club past president Graeme Alexander believed the plane was normally kept at the Watts Bridge Memorial Airfield at Mt Beppo, near the Somerset Dam.

 

"It's a replica Spitfire, which is an 80 per cent scaled version of the original," he said.

 

"I've seen it around from time to time but I've never met the owner."

 

 

[Guest Mark Mac]

Any more info on this unfortunate incident?

 

 

[Spin]

A little more detail in this report from the local Gympie Times. Reading between the lines one wonders whether there was an engine issue, tried to turn back to the field, followed by the all to common stall/spin scenario? I note too that the aircraft had undergone some work shortly beforehand.

 

 

 

Something like this always hits home, whatever the cause. I had just gotten home, buzzing from having enjoyed an hour or so airborne when I heard the news; inevitable that you'd look around you and play the "what if" game. Really sad.

 

"THE sound of an engine, nothing, then a loud bang is all that alerted Lagoon Pocket Road residents of a plane crash in a near-by paddock about 4pm yesterday. What they didn’t know was that a pilot, 61, had died just after take off from the Gympie airport at Kybong.

 

The man was already dead when local ambulance crews arrived.

 

It is believed the pilot was heading to the Watt’s Bridge Memorial Airfield.

 

A local flight instructor, who didn’t want to be named, said she saw the spitfire replica take off, turn around and crash.

 

“It’s very distressing for everybody here, as it appeared the pilot didn’t do anything wrong, it’s still unknown what could have caused the crash,” the instructor said.

 

The conditions were perfect for a flight yesterday; sunny, with a slight breeze.

 

Narelle and Jeff Webber, whose property backs onto the crash scene just across the river from the Gympie airport, said they heard the sound of impact and called triple-0.

 

“I had just made a cup of coffee, sat down and heard what sounded like a soft thud,” Mrs Webber said.

 

The plane didn’t catch fire on impact but the three-quarter replica’s nose was extensively damaged.

 

Gympie firefighters were on scene spraying foam to ensure the load of fuel the plane spilt didn’t ignite and neighbours hearded cattle on the property to assist.

 

It was believed the airplane was registered to a local man and arrived at the airfield on the back of a truck this week.

 

The single-seat plane lay in pieces in the paddock while forensic police officers and civil aviation authorities tried to figure out what caused the crash last night."

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Reported elsewhere as 19-4024

 

 

[dazza 38]

i have heard bits and peices, but in not going to comment, im going to wait for the accident investigation team to do their investigation.

 

 

[farri]

im going to wait for the accident investigation team to do their investigation.

dazza,you`ve got it.

 

Spin, every accident brings out the," What If ", in me also, I got so anxious at one point that I stoped reading the accident reports, then I finaly decided, hell no, I want to know why these accidents are occuring so that I don`t become a statistic also.

 

I advised my students,never to allow someone elses accident to frighten them or influence their ability as a pilot, in any way,as their ability was unique to them, learn what the cause of any accident was then try not to follow in the same footsteps.

 

I would still give this advice to anyone who is put off flying by the accidents that occur and in my opinion,always will occur.

 

All the best to everyone,

 

Frank.

 

 

[Spin]

This point always comes up immediately after accidents; I firmly believe that there is a lot to be learnt from discussion of the possible reasons for an incident when it is fresh in everyone's mind. Even if some theories are ultimately proven wrong, the discussion is still a learning experience for everyone involved. Otherwise, a year or more down the line, the sanitised official report comes out, a few nod wisely and say yes I remember that and it gets forgotten by everyone other than close friends and family, no-one learns much.

 

I don't imagine that the mods will have any compunction in deleting posts and dishing out discipline if anyone gets out of line in a discussion of this sort?

 

My 2c on the subject:loopy:

 

Yeah, Frank I agree, you can't let something like this stop you, it just hit me in a bit of a tender spot; all smiles after a good day and then the news takes the gloss off it.

 

 

[dazza 38]

, Spin has only quoted news paper reports, which is great.Frank excellent advice, take every accident , as it comes they have their own reasons for why they happen. I spent 6 days picking up what was left of A8-127 (F-111), in Guyra NSW when it crashed.It was amazing how the guys from ATSB, worked through the evidence. But it does take along time for the evidence to be written up and as Spin has said a sanitised form.

 

ps- as this was a RAA registered spitfire, is being investigated by our own RAA crash team.Which is good we have very experienced avaitors from all walks of life, with avaition skills similar to the ATSB.Dont think ATSB will be involved in this case though.

 

 

[farri]

I`m not sugesting not to talk about possible causes of an accident, before an official report is released, ( Is the official report always accurate,anyway?),I see no problem with anyone stating, (" In my opinion,such and such, happened"), it`s when unfounded reasons are made to look like fact that Bull S*it causes confusion,in any case, Investigators shouldn`t take any notice of anyone else.

 

I read about this one on this forum 2 hrs after it happened, I`d just got back from flying and I`ve been twice over the weekend,it hasn`t stoped me doing and enjoying, what I always do.

 

Unless there`s been an airframe failure or the pilot has been incapacitated,the more experienced of us can usually come up with the right reasons for an accident,on reading this one, I came to the conclusion that it was the Stall/Spin scenario,the reason it occured is another thing but mostly, it`s due to insufficient airspeed,in the turn or otherwise.

 

Frank.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Without commenting on this very sad event, it has to be said that low level turns downwind at climb speed, have brought a lot of aviators undone.

 

Jim Davis had a really interesting article in the July-August 2010 edition of Australian Flying titled "Deadly dragons of the downwind turn". He said that while a downwind turn is not dangerous aerodynamically, it creates a dangerous situation for a number of reasons which he explores in the article, but 2 of these gave me particular food for thought:

 

1. As you turn downwind, the angle of climb gets less because the now tailwind has the aircraft travelling a greater distance across ground for the same gain in altitude per unit time; and

 

2. Windshear may exacerbate the initial loss of airspeed that occurs due to inertia. It may also mean the uppermost wing is subject to a greater wind velocity than the lower one leading to an increase in angle of bank and hence increased stall speed.

 

His advice is that "there is no reason to do a (low, climbing) downwind turn in peacetime... but, if you do, don't do it for the wrong reasons, don't overbank, and remember that a gance at the ball and the ASI may save your life"

 

kaz

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Hey Frank, By the way cograts on your 1000th post , 43 post ago !!. yes i agree that there's often a lesson to be learnt from an unfortunate accident. I go back to the late sixties and 70s when the then DCA 'crash comics' were very well written, and included very detailed accident reports, often with photos of the crash scene.

 

As macarbe as this may sound to some, it was all very educational, and I know I always read them intently, and I do beleive I learnt a lot from them, much of which no doubt serves me still today.

 

Many accidents by their very nature do not reveal their cause. However several accidents with the same or similiar type aircraft, can set a pattern and can then point to a trend that needs to be studied and corrected.

 

This is the first Spitfire replica accident that I have heard of, and I have no reason to doubt the safety of this type. Like Frank I have been activly engaged in aviation for well over twenty years, and in that time have been exposed to many accidents, both directly and indirectly. It is normal for a pilot to want to find a cause, and normal to start thinking about what might have happened.

 

With the Spitfire, and without any direct info other than what has been posted on this forum, one might rightly assume any of the following could have been a factor.

 

Engine failure, pilot incapacitation, fuel system problems, control failure, pilot not current with aircraft type, split flap condition, prop problems, or simply the pilot allowing the airspeed to get low leading to stall and spin. Accidents are a small part of our sport, and always will be, and the only way to avoid them totally is to keep one's posterior firmly planted on the couch. To many of us this is just not an option, so we get back to learning as much about each unfortunate event as we can, thus making us better pilots in the future................................................Maj...

 

 

[Spin]

Maybe one notch of flap mate! As far as I know the pilot's name hasn't been released yet and I haven't read anything here that is anything but sympathetic to the poor bloke and his family.

 

 

[dazza 38]

im sending a PM Frank.

 

 

[farri]

i have heard bits and peices, but in not going to comment, im going to wait for the accident investigation team to do their investigation.

cfi, I`ve used dazzas` quote so you can see why I said to him, "you`ve got it"

 

I got the the impression,rightly or wrongly,that dazza wasn`t sure of what he`d heard, so he was going to waite, nowhere did I say no one should say anything before there`s been an official finding.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

, I spent 6 days picking up what was left of A8-127 (F-111), in Guyra NSW when it crashed.QUOTE]Off topic I know but reading that bit from dazza brought back this memory.

 

My son was always top of the class and he achieved the highest score required to enter University, which meant he could take any course he chose.

 

At that time there were two young, RAAF, F-111 pilots,from memory, one was 19, the other 21, years of age,so I sat down with my son and used those two guys as examples to see if he`d want to become a pilot in the RAAF and I pointed out how proud it must make someone so young feel to be an F-111 pilot.

 

He didn`t want to become a pilot and it was not to long after our conversation that both of those young guys had been killed in F-111 crashes.

 

Frank.

[dazza 38]

cfi, I`ve used dazzas` quote so you can see why I said to him, "you`ve got it"I got the the impression,rightly or wrongly,that dazza wasn`t sure of what he`d heard, so he was going to waite, nowhere did I say no one should say anything before there`s been an official finding.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

Yes your impression is Correct Frank.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

i have heard bits and peices, but in not going to comment, im going to wait for the accident investigation team to do their investigation.

Well, it is RA-Aus investigating, so unfortunately, we will never, ever hear the findings.

So might as well speculate...

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

1. As you turn downwind, the angle of climb gets less because the now tailwind has the aircraft travelling a greater distance across ground for the same gain in altitude per unit time

We fly recreational aircraft, we are no longer climbing by the time we turn downwind!

Well, I don't anyway...

 

 

[Spin]

I see the pilot has been identified elsewhere - pprune. Not someone I'd met, but by all accounts a very experienced and current aerobatic pilot; doesn't mean to say it would never happen but certainly decreases the possibility of the stall spin scenario quite dramatically, I would say. Another point I raised, regarding the very recent maintenance, also appears to have been dealt with; according to reports from the source above, the only work done was to the landing gear, nothing to the engine.

 

Truly sad and much as one is tempted to roll out the old cliche about doing what he loved best, I very much doubt that the pilots wishes would have included destroying a lovely aircraft. RIP fellow aviator.

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

"Truly sad and much as one is tempted to roll out the old cliche about doing what he loved best, I very much doubt that the pilots wishes would have included destroying a lovely aircraft. RIP fellow aviator. "

 

I concur.

 

 

[dazza 38]

My condolences to the aviator, and his family.

 

 

[kaz3g]

We fly recreational aircraft, we are no longer climbing by the time we turn downwind!

;) Ok... I know your moped climbs pretty well while everything is working ok. My old Auster is no slouch, either. And it stalls around 15 knots slower with the barn doors open.

 

But what happens if the fan stops at 700' AMSL on departure and there is nothing good to plonk down on save the ground you just left behind?

 

Do you crash straight ahead and deliberately break your aeroplane or turn back?

 

What if it happens at 600'... 500'...?

 

kaz

 

 

[Spin]

IF you want to discuss this turn back business, it can be done (discuss it) but you would want to make sure that it was comprehensively and correctly done so as to not give people information that would encourage it. I think that to open a new thread would be the way to go and there is no hurry to initiate that. A lot of pilots have been killed or severely injured attempting it, and that is the unpleasant truth of the matter. Nev...

Good call Nev, interesting as it is, we have moved a long way from the original incident and its tragic outcome. Perhaps the mods can shift or copy the responses which deal with turning back to the new thread.

 

Done - Mod

 

 

[Spin]

New thread

 

See here; http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/general-discussion/119717-turning-back-do-you-dont-you.html