To use a glide approach or not.

[farri]

In an 2 stroke engine in good working order,spark plugs coke up due to,too much oil in the fuel mixture.

 

In my opinion,what Dick Gower has said, is Correct.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Round in circles again. Glide approaches are not the best, otherwise professional airline and military crews would do them every day. But they don't. Powered approaches are normal in a powered aircraft.

Sorry Mazda but whilst powered approaches might be the norm for the sort of flying you do, glide approaches are very much the standard for high drag, low power craft such as most rag&tube ultralights, trikes (& powered parachutes ?).

 

Just because the military & airlines drag in on long finals with power from one (or more) turbines doesn't mean you have to do the same with 2-stroke !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[eightyknots]

A true story........if the guy I`m talking about reads it,"Please understand I`ve only writen this to make the point".

A guy was flying into my strip and was about half a nautical mile away when I looked up and saw him, he was coming in, in level flight at a height that there was no chance at all of making the strip should something go wrong.

 

At that time there was a single row of trees at one end of the strip between the neighbour and I and the AC was coming in from that end, unfortunately there was a storm front approaching and it got quite windy, when he got about 200 metres from the strip, I estimated his height to be about 100`AGL, all of a sudden he hit some nasty turbulence and lost a fair bit of height, he later claimed that he also had engine trouble.

 

He kept coming in and realised that he wasn`t going to clear the trees and at the very last minute he did a very tight turn to the right,to avoid the trees and simply hit the ground with the right wing followed by the rest of the AC,a total rebuild job,to see it happen I thought it would be fatal,he hardly go a scratch and it probably was better than hitting the trees,who knows?

 

Bottom line.......Once he got to final approach, he should have been at a height to be able to make the strip,no matter what.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, Wasn`t one of my students.

Hi Farri,

 

Would you be able to share with us what kind of plane he was flying, without identifying the aircraft owner? I am interested to know which plane is able to hit the ground with its right wing -as you have described- without killing or maiming its occupant.

 

 

[Teckair]

I was the person that pranged on final to Franks strip that day and what he says is fairly correct and would be what someone on the ground would think. I did let the aircraft get too low on final. Because I was flying through a squall there was quite a bit of rain, wind and turbulence the work load in the cockpit increased to the level where it got on top of me. I kept adding power but failed to realise I was still loosing height. At the last moment I turned right to avoid hitting the trees then I was flying left wing high to keep the wing out of the trees. I was still loosing height how ever and I judged the impact point that I was going hit would be one of those drains that Frank talks about earlier on this thread. If the front of the aircraft hit that drain I thought it would be fatal. At that time I reduced the bit of power the engine was developing and landed on the right wing tip. This resulted in cartwheel which dissipated the energy much more slowly than the sudden stop hitting the drain would cause. The engine on that aircraft was a VW home conversion and I think it lost power due to wet ignition wires shorting out in the rain. At that time I was at that 300 hour stage where over confidence is a problem. I did learn some valuable lessons from that effort like, it doesn't matter how close to the strip you are, flying through a squall might not be a good idea in a Chinook or maybe any thing in that situation. Never give up, fly the plane as far into the crash as you can. I have always believed in glide approaches before and after that event and think anybody flying recreational type aircraft who is not up to speed in that area is a splat waiting to happen. I have had a lot of engine failures and none have been the result of glide approaches.

 

 

[facthunter]

What do you do in Gusty conditions/ short runways?

 

You are in most instances, concentrating on the engine failure case. Many poorly adjusted motors stall at times when idled. This check is supposed to be done on taxying out. IF the engine stalls the plane is unserviceable.

 

Picture a typical situation. A good engine has just done considerable time across country, and is running fine at cruise power. You then want to do a glide approach for the last 500-1,000', in case the engine stops?

 

You normally set your idle at the lowest rpm where it will idle reliably, otherwise you float excessively, (Particularly in Jab's). If your engine does happen to stall on final, I would give an idling motor more chance of failing( though it hasn't really failed, it has stalled), than an engine that is approaching using say 1/4 throttle.

 

You can do a far more precise approach with the use of power, particularly in gusty hot conditions amd this should be practiced too. If you don't have a long runway, you don't want to land with a lot of runway behind you or at a higher than optimum airspeed, either. Nev

 

 

[farri]

Teckair, I thought you were still around and flying and I`m pleased for you.

 

Top marks to you for coming out and posting,it took guts and it might help someone else.

 

Good on you :thumb_up: and all the best to you,hope to meet up with you some day.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

Ps, I see you list your AC as Skyfox,I suppose you look down on us Drifter fliers,now.

 

Pps, The AC Techair was flying that day,is the AC I used as a reference to build mine,the one that got me started in all of this.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

What do you do in Gusty conditions/ short runways?

Exactly the circumstances to choose a non-standard powered approach ;-)

 

Picture a typical situation. A good engine has just done considerable time across country, and is running fine at cruise power. You then want to do a glide approach for the last 500-1,000', in case the engine stops?

Alternatively you've flown your whole cross-counrty at a suitable height to have options then it goes quiet in the circuit and you can't make the strip because you're on a 3mile final - how dumb is that ?

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[facthunter]

Balance.

 

Just trying to keep it in "Balance" Crezzi. You can overemphasise anything and I think we are getting very close to it with the Glide approach discussion. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

Teckair, I thought you were still around and flying and I`m pleased for you.Top marks to you for coming out and posting,it took guts and it might help someone else.

 

Good on you :thumb_up: and all the best to you,hope to meet up with you some day.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

Ps, I see you list your AC as Skyfox,I suppose you look down on us Drifter fliers,now.

No Frank I don't look down on Drifter fliers they are a fine aircraft and all aircraft have a place, I still have the Chinook and is in flying condition but has not been flown for years. I will call in when next in Cairns.

Regards Richard.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Just trying to keep it in "Balance" Crezzi. You can overemphasise anything and I think we are getting very close to it with the Glide approach discussion. Nev

Indeed so Nev & I've no wish for an entertaining thread to degenerate into Ford v Holden style bigotry either. One size doesn't fit all & long may that be the case !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[farri]

Hi Farri,Would you be able to share with us what kind of plane he was flying, without identifying the aircraft owner? I am interested to know which plane is able to hit the ground with its right wing -as you have described- without killing or maiming its occupant.

As Techair has shared his situation on the day,I think he wouldn`t mind me posting these photos.

 

The yellow AC is the one I built,I chose not to close it in,sorry the photo is old and I don`t have a better one.

 

The red one is the Chinook, the trees below the AC are the trees mentioned,both photos were taken well previous to the event.

 

Frank.

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

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Hi Farri,

 

Would you be able to share with us what kind of plane he was flying, without identifying the aircraft owner? I am interested to know which plane is able to hit the ground with its right wing -as you have described- without killing or maiming its occupant.<o:p></o:p>

 

<o:p></o:p>

 

As Techair has shared his situation on the day' date='I think he wouldn`t mind me posting these photos.<o:p></o:p>[/quote']

<o:p></o:p>

 

The yellow AC is the one I built,I chose not to close it in,sorry the photo is old and I don`t have a better one.<o:p></o:p>

 

<o:p></o:p>

 

The red one is the Chinook, the trees below the AC are the trees mentioned,both photos were taken well previous to the event.<o:p></o:p>

 

<o:p></o:p>

 

Frank.

<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>

I think this incident shows the beauty of having low inertia (okay, for some "low-momentum"), low mass and low speed planes in the ultralight category. Had that been a heavier aircraft, the pilot involved may not have come out of this alive or uninjured.<o:p></o:p>