RAAUS - AGM Minutes

[Powerin]

Section 36 asserts that members may without charge view the accounts and minutes of board and other meeting, these documents must be viewed in person at the RAAus offices in the ACT!!!!!!

I can't see that section 36 prevents anyone from being sent a copy of the books. It does however ensure one method by which any member can view them:

 

36. Inspection of books.

 

The records, books and other documents of the Association shall be open to inspection at a place in the ACT, free of charge, by a Member of the Association on request at any reasonable hour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Before asking RA-Aus for any minutes or financial information, check the law on a company's obligations for financial reporting to its members or shareholders. ASIC website might be a starting point; maybe have a look at the Corporations Law with respect to incorporated companies, and any relevant thresholds in gross turnover or number of members. It would make an argument to disclose public financial information more powerful. It could also cover the means (eg electronic copy) by which financial reports are disclosed.

 

 

[Guest pembs]

So if I'm reading this right in order to get a copy of the books to me I have to pay for something....postage? and if I do I can freely email them to everyone...I wonder I might try that email winging its way to the RAaus as we speak. I will let you know how I go but don't know how long I can hold my breath. Docjell I'm with you. I have had a fair few replies to add names to the constitutional change proposal could do with some more so come on members email me your member details to [email protected]

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Thats right, thats all we need, we have to do something to get a reaction from the board even if our effots achieve nothing more than getting the board to sit up and take some notice - we will have achieved something, I have thought long and hard about what I am about to do and I believe by the email responses I have and there are many that a lot of the members do agree that something needs to be done.....so we'll just see how we go. Thanks for the advice though always welcome Pembo

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i'd like a please explain why some say there is a culture of 'bullying' by some of the more lasting board members.

 

 

[docjell]

We are treading on very thin ice

 

Guys- we need as an organization of recreational pilots to wake up and get active.

 

We are NOT being represented by our board if they are not prepared to publish minutes of meeting and copies of the audited accounts of OUR organisation.

 

Two days ago I requested that I have emailed to me the aformentioned and the reply was that due to Para 36 in the RAAus constitution "she could not comply with my request" since she was only obliged to provide the information "to any RAAus member, without charge, IN PERSON, AT THE RAAus OFFICE IN ACT.

 

We live and fly in Australia - I am not prepared to undertake a trip to Canberra from Townsville to view what is mine to view by right - it should be available on the internet.

 

We are as a group trying to promote recreational flying and to divorce ourselves from the gross over regulation that pervades Australia - and no one seems to care at the moment!

 

We need to take back control of our organisation - if the current encumbents can't hack it lets get someone else in there who can!

 

Cheers

 

Chris Jelliffe

 

 

[winsor68]

Ok... I am very new to Ra-Aus but do have to say that based upon my personal experience so far... not impressed. I won't go in to reasons but there it is.

 

Is it a sign of problems when an entity starts receiving requests from its members about what they are paying for only to be told "if you want it come and get it"???

 

I hope I can come to have a more favourable opinion of Ra-Aus in my second year of membership.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...We are NOT being represented by our board if they are not prepared to publish minutes of meeting and copies of the audited accounts of OUR organisation.

Sorry , but your contention is not supported by the information you offer as evidence. This is but one minuscule complaint and has nothing to do with representation. Your argument is not credible.

 

Two days ago I requested that I have emailed to me the aformentioned and the reply was that due to Para 36 in the RAAus constitution "she could not comply with my request" since she was only obliged to provide the information "to any RAAus member, without charge, IN PERSON, AT THE RAAus OFFICE IN ACT.

Well that's an excuse, not a reason to withhold the information. The Constitution does not forbid dissemination, and there's no valid reason for charging for supplying them via email.Chris; I agree that all members should be able to be provided with AGM, GM, SGM Minutes and the treasurer's report and audited financial statements within a reasonable period after the meeting and indeed the candidate minutes should be provided with the notice of meeting to enable members to vote for / against or to raise amendments if they attended.

 

(noting that audited financial statements are likely at a high level and only really serve to indicate whether the association is solvent and performing accounting within acceptable practices.)

 

I've been in a number of organisations that did supply these informational items to members, but the percentage of members who actually had any interest in them has always been tiny. In retrospect, supplying them only on request would have saved some money for those organisations.

 

Now, they could raise the argument that only members who attended the meeting can usefully vote the minutes into the record, and that since there are only a handful of members who attend, the cost of general dissemination is not warranted. None of this excuses the non-supply to a member who requests them.

 

I wonder if you were supplied these things, whether they would satiate your feelings. I suspect not!

 

I'm happy to provide advice, but cannot support your cause based on the evidence provided.

 

 

[docjell]

My email was an honest and open request to be provided with information regarding minutes and financial information from an ostensibly democratic organisation to which I belong and to which I pay fees. I was astounded that there was even a hint of hesitation - the refusal was a surprise. I am only requesting that the information is available by means other than personal attendance in the ACT.

 

Of course only a handful of members attend meetings - we live in a vast country ( and surprisingly a lot of it exists outside Victoria) - so surely it is not unreasonable to require RAAus to disseminate important information by means other than personal attendance.

 

Thank you for your offer of advice

 

Regards,Chris

 

 

[Yenn]

As far as I can recollect RAAus has never published the minutes of any meeting in the last ten years. If as quoted in this forum there is a requirement to publish those minutes as soon as practicable, there seems to have been a lapse in following the legal requirements.

 

I shall be emailing my local rep to see what he has to say.

 

 

[Guest pembs]

deleted, personal attack

 

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[robinsm]

If people feel that strongly about the current encumbemts then where were they when the elections were being held. Stand for election if you feel that strongly.

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Scotty well said I think that the Treasurers position should be a paid position without doubt, I believe at the AGM there was a discrepancy of some 400K which is why the Treasures report was not accepted, as we have not seen the report the membership doesn’t know if this has been resolved or not. I don't belive this is trivial. I agree an organisation of this size needs qualified people in key positions.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

 

[Guest pembs]

David, please accept my unequivocal apologies. My comments were not meant to be personal the comment "which planet...." is a standing joke at work so this was meant as such. I realise that I should not have made such comment and retract any inference to your abilities and or knowledge.

 

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cficare – It’s not about supporting me but more about supporting yourself and the membership, don’t agree with me about anything but cifyoucare by supporting the amendments for the membership.<o:p></o:p>

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

400K! that's a big hole in the books. that is a lot of missing receipts

 

 

[Admin]

Add to that the Treasurer's budget when submitted to the board had column totals not even adding up...we are now 5 months down the track and no budget and board members have no idea what the financial status of the Association is...even though I raised and was passed nearly a year ago that board members get a monthly financial report to the health of the Association :hittinghead:

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Chris;

 

Apology accepted.

 

I did think that you must have misread my post as I was supporting your (and any member's) right of access to minutes and a financial report, but not that the RAA office's failure to comply warranted removal of Board members or changing the Constitution.

 

 

[docjell]

Well!! the attacks become personal...my support for the cause 'evaporates'....You wanted members to move the constitution forward...u got some support...then feel its ok to attack members that dont share your view...DONT count me in.

Thats a rather trivial response isn't it Cficare - bit of a dummy spit? Surely any member of RAAus must understand that there are sections of the constitution that at best serve us badly and at worst may be perceived as secretive. The apparent failure recently of the books to balance is a case in point. I don't think Pembs is embarking on a personal crusade for his own benefit - he's trying to rattle some of the apathy out of our members and get the committee to be open and honest with us. I don't for one minute believe there is malice afoot - they are just not on the same page. If you truly believe that the boards failure to openly provide a means to review our accounts and minutes is truly democratic then perhaps we are wasting our time. The old aussie adage of "she'll be right mate" might well have been true in pioneering days - it's most certainly not all right now - and this is another example of apathy and submission. But perhaps I go on too much - I just want everyone to remove their blinkers.

 

 

[markendee]

I have followed this thread from the beginning and I just knew that someone would leave the playground crying.

 

Did take longer than I thought though.

 

Seen it too many times.

 

Mark D

 

 

[Guest pembs]

cificare - come on now there are no personal attacks at all, docjell is, as we all are trying to make this a better place and evoke some participation I think you seem to be a little caught up in a misrepresentation of understanding. You have even attacked yourself, with your brain cell quip!. So let’s have a "Julia Gillard moment" and move forward and hopefully unite in a common cause. I have reedited the document today and I will place a post tomorrow, for everyone’s perusal and as promised it will be sent to the Secretary and copied to all board members on Wed evening, so if any member out there wants to add your name and member number to it just email me direct to [email protected] Don't be the silent majority be the noisy minority and lets provoke at least some thought at board level......<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

cficare, pembs has a point - you seem disgruntled. I support pembs initiative and look forward to seeing a first draft. It's just taking longer to get people's different views directed into one united message (so that's how a Board works).

 

 

[Guest jhonan]

My summary if interested

 

I did a summary of the AGM and put it on our club's blogsite.

 

It's a a personal point of view, it's not the minutes, it's not our official club's position, but some people might find it interesting.

 

RAA AGM « srfc.org.au

 

...

 

Those ancients couldn't stick feathers on a tarred man's back to fly, but they had human nature pegged.

 

Jamie

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I did a summary of the AGM and put it on our club's blogsite.It's a a personal point of view, it's not the minutes, it's not our official club's position, but some people might find it interesting.

 

...

Thanks very much for that Jamie. For me and others who didn't / couldn't attend, this is probably the only view of the whole proceedings currently available.

 

What I found particularly interesting was the point that two other "self regulating bodies" have told CASA they will be unable to comply with the "much more formal" documentation requirements. To me that sounds very serious for the future of those bodies. I'd like to think that RAA is not in that position, but I suspect that requirement is putting strains on the organisation. There have been previous comments (I think in the magazine) about the significant increase in workload CASA's new requirements were going to entail.

 

It does sound like RAA is undergoing some growing pains and their action and reaction to that stress will be critical to the health of the organisation and thus to the interests of all members. A natural reaction to this sort of stress is to focus inwardly, but this leaves members wondering if they are being well served or not.

 

Ironically, this non-communicative stance toward its members is likely to result in further pressure and could result in a significant distraction from the things that actually matter most to members.

 

I'm still watching and listening...

 

 

[Admin]

I would like to note the different views you and Ian have over the balancing of totals on the Treasurer's report.

David, the Treasurer's Report and the Budget are two separate documents

 

 

[Guest jhonan]

...

 

With 20-20 hindsight, I can see that I am implying your elected representatives are dumb. My actual intention was to provide an antidote to a thought I've heard expressed: "Why don't they leave us alone and let us get on with flying."

 

Your board has to satisfy two contradictory lines: an imposed legislative framework with attendant bureaucracy, and meet the demands of a popular mandate.

 

I agree on the communication side, but how best to achieve that.