RAAUS - AGM Minutes

[Guest pembs]

Well done Jamie - at least we can get a glimpse of at least who attended, the idea that it be held at NATFLY is a good suggestion, albeit even further away from us northerners but I think its a good move. I think employing more staff to take on the burden so that we can meet the CASA requirement has to be considered, as there could be untold ramifications.

 

 

[Guest jhonan]

Thanks very much for that Jamie. For me and others who didn't / couldn't attend, this is probably the only view of the whole proceedings currently available....

Speaking of ancient history, I dug a bit deeper and found my report for the AGM of 2009. Some themes remain the same. RAA Annual General Meeting « srfc.org.au

 

I'm pretty proud of the whole blog, actually. Photos, stories, poems... Hours of fun.

 

SRFC is Sydney Recreational Flying Club.

 

Jamie

 

 

[winsor68]

Now I'm worried... this is serious.

 

LOL

 

 

[docjell]

RAAus minutes

 

Owing to the topic of discussion in this thread it is being monitored by ALL moderators.You will have noticed that some messages have been either moderated or removed entirely. The reason for doing so has been included for transparency where practical.

 

Please assist us by considering the intent and content of your posts before sending.

 

Thanks - Mods

Dear Moderator

I was alarmed to discover that you have seen fit to censor what I took to be very reasonable if robust discourse between members on an extremely important topic - if the same situation had arisen in Federal Government it would amount to a constitutional crisis of significant magnitude. You state the reason for doing so (the censorship) 'has been included for transparency where practical' I am afraid I do not understand what this sentence means. Many of us feel that the RAAus board is not functioning with its membership as the primary focus of importance for a number of reasons. My posting was altered by yourselves and in doing so lost what I truly feel was a lot of its impact. I stated that 'any RAAus member with more than two brain cells to rub together must surely see etc etc' - this was deleted. It was not rascist, personal, offensive, sexually innapropriate, or designed to invoke civil unrest. It was worded to make the readers sit up and react - which a lot of them need to do -if they really want to maintain our current very limited freedoms as recreational pilots.

 

Please do not stand in the way of this intention - my posting was passionate and that was its intention - unless we react and proact now,

 

our aviating freedoms are on the chopping block. I had previously thought that the RA forums were an area in which we could react with "no holds barred" - provided the content was appropriate and legal. Mine was both of those things and yet was censored - please explain.

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Back to the matter at hand Gents...... It should be noted that Lynn the RAAus Secretary will not take your call and you will be directed back to the RAAus office so as a member you cannot contact (speak to your secretary direct!) you can however email. Here is Lynns reply from last week

 

From: Lynn Jarvis "][mailto:[email protected]]

 

Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 12:24 PM

 

To: Graham Pemberton

 

Cc: '[email protected]'

 

Subject: Re: Proposed Change to the Constitution<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

<o:p> </o:p>

 

Thankyou Graham,

 

 

 

I have distributed your email and the proposal document to the board as correspondence received from members.

 

 

 

As I am sure you are aware, these changes need to be passed by a Special Resolution at a General Meeting and notice of that resolution and intention to propose it must be provided to members. As requested I will provide notification to you of when these proposed changes are distributed to members for voting purposes.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Lynn Jarvis

 

Secretary

 

Recreational Aviation Australia

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Ian - this states that this has been distributed to the Board do you have a copy now?

 

 

[Admin]

Yes Pembs, it has been posted in the Board Forums so all board members are aware of it now. Note, the board can not squash it or change it or anything else, it has to follow the proper process as defined in the constitution which bypasses any involvement of the board. :big_grin:

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Does anyone know which two reglatory bodies that cannot comply with CASA request?

 

 

[Admin]

Hi All

 

Please note that the minutes of the RAAus AGM 2010 will be posted very soon

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Amazing!

 

 

[pudestcon]

Well at the risk of being flamed, dismissed, ignored and thought of as a damned fool I'll have a go here.

 

I believe I am one of the apathetic majority, who, for better or worse, is a member of RaAus for only one reason - because that is the only way to fly 3 axis control ultralights legally. I don't give a stuff about AGMs, GMs, Boards, budgets and power plays within the organisation - just leave me alone to fly at the "grass roots" end of our aviation spectrum. Hell, I don't even know who my board member is and don't care either.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I have the utmost respect for people who want to get involved and hold the 'powers that be' to account, just don't count on my support.

 

Now I can't speak (heaven forbid!!) for the silent majority, but it is my belief the vast majority of members would share my (or a similar) apathetic view.

 

OK, I'm waiting for the beating:black_eye::black_eye::black_eye::black_eye::black_eye::black_eye:

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Pud - No beating it’s an interesting perspective, just two things; first if we didn’t have the organisation you wouldn’t be able to fly legally right....so let’s say the organisation goes into (hypothetically) administration because the accounts, budget was losing money, say 400K a year, and no one knew or cared where it went. So no organisation, how are you now going to fly legally? Secondly by commenting you have shown some concern. All I am trying to do here is get some transparency for those of us who do care and want to remain in the air governed by an organisation with truth, trust and integrity at the head of it, representing ALL members.

 

Thanks

 

Pembs

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I appreciate the initiative that pembs has shown, and the comments on this thread are all useful. It gives a really informative insight into how members think and what they expect from their leadership. This is valuable background for anyone thinking of standing for election. Most of us, like pud, just want to fly. But a few of us are looking for something more to serve aviation.

 

 

[facthunter]

perspective.

 

People who don't really want to get involved are probably thinking that they can't do much about anything anyhow, and let's face it there is a lot of apathy, about in the ranks. The truth is that you NEED the organisation. Your flying outcomes and potential freedoms, are all tied up with it performng well, and acting on your behalf and always in your interests. You have to be kept in the loop and your opinions should be heeded. Those who can contribute in any way, should be encouraged to.

 

Are they at the moment? Not sure.

 

There are a lot of things happening and some should concern us ALL.

 

Future availability of airspace without undue restriction and cost imposts , is one that stands out. The RAAus sought to cover a lot of flying and seeks to grow bigger. There is a JOB to be done, the organisation is accountable and the show must go on. That is just a fact of life.

 

Can RAAus really represent us in matters where our views oppose those of CASA, given the nature of the relationship we have with it?

 

IF you are not nice to Santa, how can you expect any presents?

 

That's the reason I have stayed with AOPA . Nev

 

 

[docjell]

Pud - certainly no beating - I agree two hundred percent - I just want to wander out to my hangar whenever the mood takes me and head off into the wild blue yonder - thats what its all about. Trouble is that the RAAus is the licensing authority to allow you and I to do this at the moment - and they were not prepared to let me know what thay are doing with my money - and even more worryingly- what they are saying to, for example, CASA, claiming to be my representatives. If the RAAus implodes, as I think it could,then our freedom to fly as we do at the moment may well dissapear completely. Perhap then the silent apathetic majority will become less silent - but it will all be too late.

 

 

[docjell]

Thanks facthunter- you'd posted as I was writing. I too have rejoined AOPA as I think the current trends within the RAAus are worrying to say the very least. I am continuously surprised by the widespread apathy and naivety within our community - the ostrich syndrome I think!

 

 

[Guest pembs]

docjell - firstly welcome back where have you been? Both you and facthunter are right on the nail here, but just to add insult to injury so to speak, try contacting the Secretary, although his phone number is listed on the RAAus website it directs you to the lovely staff at the RAAus office. When you ask to speak with Lynn, you get told that he doesn’t take calls from the membership but will reply if a message is left! Fantastic transparency and he is a member of our exec. I am trying to find out what is going on with the Constitutional Change proposal I have submitted but I fear that it may go into the "black hole of apathy" So if anyone wants to join me I am now going to ring the Secretary every single day until I get put through so go on phone Lynn (Secretary) on 02 6280 4700 and see if we the membership can get an update. Let’s keep the pressure up. My motto, "Never give up"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

Pembs

 

 

[docjell]

Thank you Pembs - nice to be back - I was bad boy and was sent to the corner! I'll certainly contact the Secretary as you suggest - the 'black hole of apathy' as you so eruditely describe it is powerfully attractive so it would seem.

 

Our local board member Steve Runciman has been noticeably absent from these discussions - is he under any form of constraints as an RAAus rep do you know? His input would be most welcome and useful. No - I'm not into giving up either - let's press on!

 

 

[Guest pembs]

I know Steve has been fighting our corner on the Board forums apparently there is a lack of communication on the part of the exec, as in being hard to contact ........how doesn't that surprise me. Well Ididnt get through to the Secretary today 3 phone calls later and counting.......

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Give them time, pembs. I wouldn't harass the Exec members unnecessarily with phone calls.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I've been hanging back from posting for a bit just to see how most thought about the situation with the RAAus. I have not been happy with several of the main players for some time, about 12 months before Tony Haye's passing, he contacted me when i posted about losing the 10-001 rego when a past AUF president decided to put it on his aircraft. Bit of a shock to find out after the rebuild. Tony had also had the same happen to him with the 19-001 Thruster. Ended up on a CEO's drifter. Tony also explained as to why he stopped instructing and why he walked away from his position on the board. It was disturbing to be told of the culture that he endured during his time on the board, I am sure that Tony would be most pleased to see that an action of 'please explain' has been put in motion by members.

 

I do not think that even if the RAAus "imploded" or CASA withdrew the RAAus right to rule, that anyone would be grounded. CASA would have to show responsibility to keep it all going. If McCormack was to ground outright i don't think he would make it from his car to his hanger without getting stoned to death by the outraged masses. Not to mention peeved off MPs whose phones have been running hot. We would be the laughing stock of the aviation world by being the only 1st world demockracy that has banned flying for fun. Good career move!

 

 

[winsor68]

I think it is time for people to just come out and say it... I don't know anyone who "of the record" has anything positive to say.

 

I remember reading briefly about the registration fraud a while ago... until it suddenly seemed to disappear.

 

I was concerned then... and my experience with being a member in the brief time since then has reinforced my concern.

 

Come on people... what really gives with this whole thing. There are people on these forums who I believe can answer the questions the discrepancies in the minutes raise for us... or would the Ra-Aus hierarchy not be amused if it is all outed here due to the political nature of the board?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Winsor,

 

Every attempt to get the RAAus to reply over the rego number theft was totally ignored. The initial application to renew was ignored and the cheque was never cashed or returned. After the next board meeting i noticed that on the list of rego numbers on the RAAus website had been changed to show 001 as a "Muir Kestral" and there was a small mention that the rule had been changed to allow reallocation of numbers. So they broke the rules then changed them to cover their ass. If Tony had not told us what had happened we would never had known what went on there. I guess Muir never counted on that Scout resurfacing. As for expenditure, Tony also mentioned of Muir's weekly commute from bris to canberra/bris at members expense. for me the alarm bells have been ringing loud and clear for some years now. Some things can't be forced and have to flow a natural course. Glad to see the masses finally seeing what has been happening. Can only imagine what else has been going on. This can become messy but i belive that in the long run big improvements will be made and everything will move forward rather quickly after all is sorted. Tony also mentioned a bit of a continueing feud between Middo and CASA. Anyone have details as to why Middo was dumped from his position with CASA? Be interesting to know what his job was with CASA and the reason he was given the flick. If Tony was correct and Middo and CASA have been in conflict then this may explain why attempts to change our Op Regs keep stalling. 14 years delay, the timing seems about right. Time to clean the whole house out and start afresh. I think the only person i would keep would be Steve Bell.

 

Extreamly dissapointed to see how the sport i helped create all those years ago has turned into a crapfest of over regulation. worst thing is i have to pay for this. Gimme a FAR 103 anyday, it is all i need.

 

 

[Guest pembs]

Winsor

 

Great comments now let’s open all the cans and get it all out the time is now. The RAaus quote the following on the website which is rather interesting; "RA-Aus itself doesn't particularly want to grow bigger but it certainly wants to grow better" this is taken from the following page About the RA-Aus association and our mission (w3c 03/10) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

so who is stopping it growing who doesn’t want this and why and also show me, nay us the members what has "really" improved. I know that there is some great work going on and has gone on but it's the minority that hold certain positions that seem to govern themselves. The presidents write up in this months magazine is tantamount to a self advertisement to come fly and rent one of his aircraft out in Tazzie.......grow better, grow bigger pockets more like to hold the cash.....but seriously who moderates the people at the top who holds them accountable?<o:p></o:p>

 

Well we do but we have to have a strong enough voice to do it. It has to come from a large percentage of members. So give me some suggestions how best to address this and I will, petition maybe on this site? Lets try it………<o:p></o:p>

 

 

[winsor68]

For a start I would just like to know how much of our membership money they have, how much of they spend, and on what and whom...

 

Pretty simple really... and pretty important.

 

This should not have to lead to a bloodbath... if management is doing the job this can all just go away. But at the moment I am hearing from every corner (and not just on this site) that there are problems at the core... It is all pretty vague at the moment but it is there none the less.

 

The membership should not have to take this further... but keep in mind that there are members who will.