Training ground for poor aimenship.

[Guest becky1]

Hi

 

I agree with Mazda on this subject 100%.

 

Jennifer

 

 

[Tomo]

Regardless of the fact whether we're RAA, GA, HGFA, GFA etc.... we're all pilots (nuff said)

 

We're all individuals - and we're all responsible for our own actions.

 

They say if you want to know a persons character, put him in heavy traffic.

 

As Motz said, attitude is everything. Forget whether your plane has letters or numbers on it, it means nothing in regards to a persons attitude.

 

Mazda it's a shame, but until you're a RAA pilot you don't really understand how much we get bashed by GA. I'm quite appalled over the fact, one of the reasons I wish we could stop it.

 

YES the training is different, and YES the syllabus is too, but that is beside the point.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hi Mazda.

 

I don't think its unfair to say that 'most' ga instructors are there to build hours. There are a few career instructors (like yourself) but they would have to be the exception. (yes your exceptional )

 

You are correct that the RAA instructor course is only 20 hours as apposed to 50. But with 20 hours of 'mutual' I have always wondered how this practicing on another cantidate helps in the long run. To really get an idea they should be thrown in with a middle aged china men, or a bricklayer from the western suburbs with arms like tree trunks who doesnt want to let go of the controls. .

 

As i keep saying I am not bashing GA, i am bashing poor pilots. And as you have pointed out they do exist on both sides of the fence.

 

A little confused on a few of your statements however.

 

Is it only RAA pilots who bust CTA?

 

Is it only RAA acft that have crap radios?.. I would add that even a top of the line bendix is only as usefull as the guy (or girl ) pushing the button.

 

 

[Thx1137]

I personally didn't see it as GA bashing. Just that in this instance some GA pilots were called to account. If I say "A saw a a couple of kids steal a car" I am not saying "all kids steal cars".

 

Why mention they are GA at all? Because we all get defensive if another group picks on "our" group. That is human nature, maybe genetics will weed it out of us one day but not yet...

 

If there is a feeling that someone is holding thier group as being superior then they had better make sure they don't stuff up otherwise 99.9% of us will love to point out their mistakes. Again, human nature and personally. As long as what is reported is accurately portrayed I don't see a problem with it.

 

Hopefully no GA pilots will point out my mistakes on Sunday but I cuoldn't begrudge them if they did, as long as it was accurate....

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

Tomo said quote Regardless of the fact whether we're RAA, GA, HGFA, GFA etc.... we're all pilots (nuff said)

 

How true. I have been an active HGFA, GFA, GA and RAA pilot at various times over the past 40 years (bl...y h..ll is it that long!) and as a group we are all the same. Some good pilots, some excellent and some not so good. Some thoughtful and courteous, some careful, some careless. But mostly good company .....:big_grin:

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...No GA aircraft would get throught its maintenance with a radio like that.I do not wish to say anything against RA, it is a good thing, but the generalisations on this thread are unfair and unwarranted.

Regardless of that statement, I have witnessed a CFI of a GA school teaching a student, in the student's own aircraft which was VH registered, and whose radio was readable 1-2 at best. This was not an isolated flight, but persisted throughout the entire training. Several people are said to have spoken to him about it, but no change.

 

On the day he sent the student solo, he called me, as I was inbound to the circuit at the time, to indicate that he was sending the student solo. I had been hearing their calls while they were doing circuits, but more interpolating, rather than reading what was said. I could not understand all of what he was saying, but did catch "student" and "solo", and knowing they had been doing circuits, assumed the rest. In responding, I reported the reception as readable 1-2 with almost no modulation, but good signal strength. Out of courtesy, I indicated that I would overfly and join after the student had completed the circuit.

 

Subsequent flights still had the same unintelligible call issue until the student finally left and took the aircraft with him.

 

I'm not saying the problem is GA. I've heard some terrible RAA radios too. It is just that your statement appears to be saying it can't happen in GA and my direct experience clearly refutes that point.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...Is it only RAA pilots who bust CTA? ..

At a CASA safety seminar held at Wangaratta AD earlier in the year, they presented statistics on the number of CTA violations and related some stories. I don't remember the statistics, but there was a surprisingly high number of CTA violations per month that seemed like a more or less steady state. What I can say definitely, either because the fact was presented or we asked is:-

 

• Both GA and RAA aircraft are involved (we didn't ask about other registration sources).
   
   
  
• CASA have not separated the incidents into GA and other registration types, so there was no feel for a ratio. (we did ask if there were figures for RAA)
   
   
  
• All the stories related to GA registrations. (Make of this what you will)
   
   
  
• CASA presented occurrences broken down by reason. Unfortunately I don't recall the figures, but they were quite interesting.
   
   
  
• What was concerning was the percentage of repeat offenders and persistent offenders, where ultimately a number lost their licence, including a school.
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Hi Motz you were saying about the radios. When I was doing GA in our a/c (just before John bought it for my b/day) I had cause on several occassions to complain about the radio in the A/C I was in. I was told there was nothing wrong with it, it was my imagination. The tower called me up one day & said they were getting terrible feedback on my radio. It turned out it was the "brand new headset we had purchased, took it back where I got it, they checked it out (of course) nothing wrong with the set. Had the jack in the plane checked out nothing wrong with it either. Hence whenever I flew the plane my haedset had to be plugged into RHS jack. Still to this day cannot find what causes the feedback & crap reception . It appears only to be that headset.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...Still to this day cannot find what causes the feedback & crap reception . It appears only to be that headset.

If you know a friendly local amateur radio operator, get him / her to look at it. First step is to determine if it is audio or RF feedback. A trained ear can tell the difference. The causes are completely different. It needs to be checked in-situ, as sometimes there is a difference in both the radio wiring and the headset that combined cause an issue, but in isolation do not.

 

While for simple problems you can just substitute a different headset or radio to isolate the faulty item, in more complex situations, such as you have encountered, it is insufficient to locate the cause.

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Thanks for that David will go see someone about it.

 

 

[Chird65]

It may be my misunderstanding but we are all General Aviation (GA), we are all human, and we all make mistakes.

 

The lessons learnt here are that sometimes the bashing occurs either through habit or through misunderstanding. I see this between VH / RAA, Pilot / Pilot, Club / Club, and airfield / airfield. The other lesson to learn is we all could improve our airmanship and the only way to do this is to keep trying

 

.

 

Having flown in GA and RAA I can say that it does not matter where the mistakes are coming from, only that we try to correct them. As has been said before:

 

· Approach the Pilot in question. (If safe to do so)

 

· Approach the CFI / owner / club.

 

· Report to the organisation responsible. (In RAA that is ultimately CASA)

 

It is better this way rather than having to add to a ATSB report.

 

 

[kaz3g]

...i still didnt know his callsign because of the speed he gave it and it sounded like"Qlink mmummble mmummble..."

I wrote a reply and also lost it when I hit a key and the whole thing disappeared... I'll try again.

 

The comment about the speed at which some people speak on the radio brought to mind a story I heard while at William Creek a couple of years ago. Told to me by a well-weathered former squatter now park ranger it went like this...

 

An old pastoralist from way outback had been flying for many years but spent most of his time on the station mustering, checking bores and wells and keeping an eye on his stock to discourage the poddy-dodgers. He went to "town", his local regional centre only occasionally and hadn't been to the big smoke for decades. He decided it was time to go to Brisbane.

 

As he was approaching the control zone, he gave an inbound call in a slow, laconic, nasal drawl:

 

"Archerfield Tower , Bonanza X Y Z position / height / intentions request airways clearance"..

 

The smart young fella in the tower responded

 

"Qlink mmummble mmummble". At the speed of light he gave the clearance, reporting points, altitudes and joining position in the circuit.

 

The old fella tried again with the same result. He keyed the mike...

 

"Archerfield Tower , Bonanza X Y Z can you hear how slow I speak , sonny?"

 

The tower responded "Affirm".

 

The old fella keyed his mike again and said:

 

"Well . That's how slow I think , TOO !"

 

He reportedly had a GREAT time in Brisbane and had no problems getting his clearance to depart.

 

kaz

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Reading you 5 David:thumb_up:

 

 

[bilby54]

I think that Motz has said that he was not trying to bash the school because it was GA but if he had just said "another school on the same field" - I'd bet the first question that everyone would have asked is "What type of school was it? :big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

on the light side

 

reminds me of this old yarn:big_grin:

 

Hi Mate,

 

>

 

> I am writing to you because I need your help to get me bloody

 

> pilot's license back. You keep telling me you got all the right

 

> contacts. Well now's your chance to make something happen for me

 

> because, mate, I'm bloody desperate. But first, I'd better tell you

 

> what happened during my last flight review with the CASA Examiner.

 

>

 

> On the phone, Ron (that's the CASA shxxhead), seemed a reasonable sort

 

> of a bloke. He politely reminded me of the need to do a flight

 

> review every two years. He even offered to drive out, have a look

 

> over my property and let me operate from my own strip. Naturally I

 

> agreed to that.

 

>

 

> Anyway, Ron turned up last Wednesday. First up, he said he was a bit

 

> surprised to see the plane on a small strip outside my homestead,

 

> because the "ALA"(Authorized Landing Area), is about a mile away. I

 

> explained that because this strip was so close to the homestead, it

 

> was more convenient than the "ALA," and despite the power lines

 

> crossing about midway down the strip, it's really not a problem to

 

> land and take-off, because at the halfway point down the strip

 

> you're usually still on the ground.

 

>

 

> For some reason Ron, seemed nervous. So, although I had done the pre-

 

> flight inspection only four days earlier, I decided to do it all

 

> over again. Because the ***** was watching me carefully, I walked

 

> around the plane three times instead of my usual two.

 

>

 

> My effort was rewarded because the colour finally returned to Ron's

 

> cheeks. In fact, they went a bright red. In view of Ron's obviously

 

> better mood, I told him I was going to combine the test flight with

 

> some farm work, as I had to deliver three "poddy calves" from the home

 

> paddock to the main herd. After a bit of a chase I finally caught

 

> the calves and threw them into the back of the ol' Cessna 172. We

 

> climbed aboard but Ron, started getting onto me about weight and

 

> balance calculations and all that crap. Of course I knew that sort

 

> of thing was a waste of time because calves, like to move around a

 

> bit particularly when they see themselves 500-feet off the ground!

 

> So, it's bloody pointless trying to secure them as you know.

 

> However, I did tell Ron that he shouldn't worry as I always keep the

 

> trim wheel set on neutral to ensure we remain pretty stable at all

 

> stages throughout the flight.

 

>

 

> Anyway, I started the engine and cleverly minimized the warm-up time

 

> by tramping hard on the brakes and gunning her to 2,500 RPM. I then

 

> discovered that Ron has very acute hearing, even though he was

 

> wearing a bloody headset. Through all that noise he detected a

 

> metallic rattle and demanded I account for it. Actually it began

 

> about a month ago and was caused by a screwdriver that fell down a

 

> hole in the floor and lodged in the fuel selector mechanism. The

 

> selector can't be moved now, but it doesn't matter because it's

 

> jammed on " Both tanks," so I suppose that's Okay.

 

>

 

> However, as Ron was obviously a nit-picker, I blamed the noise on

 

> vibration from a stainless steel thermos flask which I keep in a

 

> beaut little possie between the windshield and the magnetic compass.

 

> My explanation seemed to relax Ron, because he slumped back in the

 

> seat and kept looking up at the cockpit roof. I released the brakes

 

> to taxi out, but unfortunately the plane gave a leap and spun to the

 

> right. "Hell" I thought, "not the starboard wheel chock again."

 

>

 

> The bump jolted Ron back to full alertness. He looked around just in

 

> time to see a rock thrown by the prop-wash disappear completely

 

> through the windscreen of his brand new Commodore. "Now I'm really

 

> in trouble," I thought...

 

>

 

> While Ron was busy ranting about his car, I ignored his requirement

 

> that we taxi to the "ALA," and instead took off under the power lines.

 

> Ron didn't say a word, at least not until the engine started

 

> coughing right at the lift off point, and then he bloody screamed

 

> his head off. "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"

 

>

 

> "Now take it easy Ron," I told him firmly. "That often happens on

 

> take-off and there is a good reason for it." I explained patiently

 

> that I usually run the plane on standard MOGAS, but one day I

 

> accidentally put in a gallon or two of kerosene. To compensate for

 

> the low octane of the kerosene, I siphoned in a few gallons of super

 

> MOGAS and shook the wings up and down a few times to mix it up.

 

> Since then, the engine has been coughing a bit but in general it

 

> works just fine, if you know how to coax it properly.

 

>

 

> Anyway, at this stage Ron seemed to lose all interest in my test

 

> flight. He pulled out some rosary beads, closed his eyes and became

 

> lost in prayer(I didn't think anyone was a Catholic these days). I

 

> selected some nice music on the ADF radio to help him relax.

 

> Meanwhile, I climbed to my normal cruising altitude of 10,500-feet.

 

> I don't normally put in a flight plan or get the weather because, as

 

> you know getting FAX access out here is a friggin' joke and the

 

> weather is always "8/8 blue" anyway. But since I had that near miss

 

> with a Saab 340, I might have to change me thinking on that.

 

>

 

> Anyhow, on leveling out, I noticed some wild camels heading into my

 

> improved pasture. I hate bloody camels, and always carry a loaded

 

> 303, clipped inside the door of the Cessna just in case I see any of

 

> the bastards.

 

>

 

> We were too high to hit them, but as a matter of principle, I

 

> decided to have a go through the open window. Mate, when I pulled

 

> the bloody rifle out, the effect on Ron, was friggin' electric. As I

 

> fired the first shot his neck lengthened by about six inches and his

 

> eyes bulged like a rabbit with myxo. He really looked as if he had

 

> been jabbed with an electric cattle prod on full power. In fact,

 

> Ron's reaction was so distracting that I lost concentration for a

 

> second and the next shot went straight through the port tyre. Ron

 

> was a bit upset about the shooting (probably one of those pinko

 

> animal lovers I guess) so I decided not to tell him about our little

 

> problem with the tyre.

 

>

 

> Shortly afterwards I located the main herd and decided to do my

 

> fighter pilot trick. Ron had gone back to praying when, in one

 

> smooth sequence, I pulled on full flaps, cut the power and started a

 

> sideslip from 10,500-feet down to 500-feet at 130, knots indicated

 

> (the last time I looked anyway) and the little needle rushed up to

 

> the red area on me ASI. What a buzz, mate! About half way through

 

> the descent I looked back in the cabin to see the calves gracefully

 

> suspended in mid air and mooing like crazy. I was going to comment to

 

> Ron on this unusual sight, but he looked a bit green and had rolled

 

> himself into the fetal position and was screamin' his freakin' head

 

> off. Mate, talk about being in a bloody zoo. You should've been

 

> there, it was so bloody funny!

 

>

 

> At about 500-feet I leveled out, but for some reason we kept

 

> sinking. When we reached 50-feet, I applied full power but nothin'

 

> happened. No noise no nothin'. Then, luckily, I heard me

 

> instructor's voice in me head saying "carb heat, carb heat." So I

 

> pulled carb heat on and that helped quite a lot, with the engine

 

> finally regaining full power. Whew, that was really close, let me

 

> tell you!

 

>

 

> Then mate, you'll never guess what happened next! As luck would have

 

> it, at that height we flew into a massive dust cloud caused by the

 

> cattle and suddenly went I.F. bloody R, mate. BJ, you would have

 

> been really proud of me as I didn't panic once, not once, but I did

 

> make a mental note to consider an instrument rating as soon as me

 

> gyro is repaired (something I've been meaning to do for a while

 

> (now). Suddenly Ron's elongated neck and bulging eyes reappeared. His

 

> Mouth opened wide, very wide, but no sound emerged. "Take it easy,"

 

> I told him, "we'll be out of this in a minute." Sure enough, about a

 

> minute later we emerged, still straight and level and still at

 

> 50-feet.

 

>

 

> Admittedly I was surprised to notice that we were upside down, and I

 

> kept thinking to myself, "I hope Ron didn't notice that I had

 

> forgotten to set the QNH when we were taxiing." This minor

 

> tribulation forced me to fly to a nearby valley in which I had to do

 

> a half roll to get upright again.

 

>

 

> By now the main herd had divided into two groups leaving a narrow

 

> strip between them. "Ah!" I thought, "there's an omen. We'll land

 

> right there." Knowing that the tyre problem demanded a slow

 

> approach, I flew a couple of steep turns with full flap. Soon the

 

> stall warning horn was blaring so loud in me ear that I cut it's

 

> circuit breaker to shut it up, but by then I knew we were slow

 

> enough anyway. I turned steeply onto a 75-foot final and put her

 

> down with a real thud. Strangely enough, I had always thought you

 

> could only ground loop in a tail dragger but, as usual, I was proved

 

> wrong again!

 

>

 

> Halfway through our third loop, Ron at last recovered his sense of

 

> humor. Talk about laugh. I've never seen the likes of it. He

 

> couldn't stop. We finally rolled to a halt and I released the

 

> calves who bolted out of the aircraft like there was no tomorrow.

 

>

 

> I then began picking clumps of dry grass. Between gut wrenching fits

 

> of laughter, Ron asked what I was doing. I explained that we had to

 

> stuff the port tyre with grass so we could fly back to the

 

> homestead. It was then that Ron, really lost the plot and started

 

> running away from the aircraft. Can you believe it? The last time I

 

> saw him he was off into the distance, arms flailing in the air and

 

> still shrieking with laughter. I later heard that he had been

 

> confined to a psychiatric institution - poor bugger!

 

>

 

> Anyhow mate, that's enough about Ron. The problem is I got this

 

> letter from CASA withdrawing, as they put it, my privileges to fly;

 

> until I have undergone a complete pilot training course again and

 

> undertaken another flight proficiency test.

 

>

 

> Now I admit that I made a mistake in taxiing over the wheel chock

 

> and not setting the QNH using strip elevation, but I can't see what

 

> else I did that was a so bloody bad that they have to withdraw me

 

> flamin' license. Can you?

 

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

The first time I read this joke I nearly fell off the chair laughing. When John & the kids got home I read it out to them with tears rolling down my cheeks it is just so funny & reminded of some of the old timer farmers we used to know when we were younger. So layback 12/10 DD. Sue