hobart crash on highway

[Guest terry]

Plane crash cause revealed Tasmania News - The Mercury - The Voice of Tasmania

 

this is a link to a story in the mercury today. I'm interested to know who people think are at fault and where the blame should sit and what if any action casa will take.

 

Terry

 

 

[djpacro]

This report of another accident to an Airtourer is also worthwhile reading.

 

Investigation: 200303633 - Victa Ltd AIRTOURER 100/A3, VH-MVP

 

 

[winsor68]

This report of another accident to an Airtourer is also worthwhile reading.Investigation: 200303633 - Victa Ltd AIRTOURER 100/A3, VH-MVP

Engine failures don't cause aircraft to crash... generally.?

 

They cause them to need to land very, very fast... with varying degrees of success, sadly for some.

 

I guess it is a design quirk of the Airtourer but ultimately...no one is responsible but the pilot.

 

 

[rgmwa]

The pilot is ultimately responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, extennuating circumstances notwithstanding. However, in this case I suspect CASA will not take any action, because as far as I can see, the pilot fundamentally didn't do anything wrong, the Airtourer is not a foolproof design, and nobody was hurt. Call it a nil-all draw?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[winsor68]

I would guess they will release some sort of bulletin relating to fuel checks on type.

 

 

[djpacro]

The MVP accident was in 2003. That ATSB report is fairly recent and only very recently has action been taken to issue a temporary revision to the Flight Manual (not all models of Airtourer) from 1.3 litres to 20 (approx, I haven't seen the document to read the exact figure).

 

If the pilot in Tassie (and the pilot of another Airtourer who forced landed after running out of fuel a few years ago) had known about that perhaps things would've been different - maybe only embarrassment at the destination .

 

I've been flying Airtourers for 40 years. Even in the early years I was wary of the gauge. It took a long time before I started to be very wary of the dipstick as well.

 

Going somewhere, two people and a little bit of baggage, not enough weight to fill the tank. I now wonder how close I came to having a similar accident when I was a young lad operating out of Essendon.

 

More of a problem with the more powerful engine with fuel flows varying between 35 and 50 litre per hour depending on the tasks so altogether not easy to correlate a fuel log with dipstick readings over any number of flights.

 

(The T-6 model is altogether a more sensible aeroplane with a better dipstick)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hmm been a while since i have worked on GA aircraft but i do remember that part of major inspection or putting an aircraft on the register for the first time included calibrating the gauges by filling the tanks then draining them via the fuel feed to the engine and calculating how much error the gauges show. This also included any dipsticks ect.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

The Mercury report mentions 'wrinkles in the tank bottom' which reminds me of an incident a few years ago. I stop on a lonely road to help a family whose almost new 4X4 had stopped for no apparent reason. The guy had checked all that he could and said that there was plenty of fuel in the tank. The indicator backed up this claim. I got down and under and found that the bottom of his tank had been sucked up into the tank and the outlet pipe was now higher than the fuel in the tank. The cause, a blocked breather hole in the fuel cap. The only thing we could do was to go get more fuel and then drive to his nearest dealership, with the cap loose, and have a new tank and cap fitted.

 

 

[Chrism]

Zero!

 

Great that he lived!

 

Interestingly, the Honk Kong TV animation upgraded him to what looks like a AM6 Zero!

 

 

[djpacro]

.... and what if any action casa will take.Terry

The ATSB report today may partly answer your question.

A number of safety issues were identified concerning the measurement of the quantity of fuel on board, and consumed before and during the flight. Those issues contributed to the pilot's belief that there was more fuel on board the aircraft than was actually the case.

As a result of this accident the aircraft's type certificate holder, aircraft owner's association and the aircraft's operator have undertaken a number of safety actions. Those actions include a number of pilot education initiatives and the amendment of the operator's maintenance processes to ensure compliance with all airworthiness directives.

 

In addition, the aircraft's type certificate holder is undertaking a number of enhancements in response to an unrelated Civil Aviation Safety Authority-initiated review of aspects of the aircraft's fuel system and concerns about the aircraft's original fuel system certification process.

[facthunter]

correct technique.

 

So logical and the only way to do it. The principle is fail safe. The calibration of dipstick and fuel gauge is verified and you establish the actual rate of fuel usage. All you have to do to complete the picture is to add a measured amount of fuel, each time, from a known situation. ( don't rely on gauge indications). Use empty or from a "dipped" amount . FULL doesn't count if the tank is a bladder as they can collapse. or become detached from the mount point.

 

You can't pull over on a fluffy cloud and refuel in the sky...Nev

 

 

[naremman]

naremman

 

The MVP accident was in 2003. That ATSB report is fairly recent and only very recently has action been taken to issue a temporary revision to the Flight Manual (not all models of Airtourer) from 1.3 litres to 20 (approx, I haven't seen the document to read the exact figure).If the pilot in Tassie (and the pilot of another Airtourer who forced landed after running out of fuel a few years ago) had known about that perhaps things would've been different - maybe only embarrassment at the destination .

I've been flying Airtourers for 40 years. Even in the early years I was wary of the gauge. It took a long time before I started to be very wary of the dipstick as well.

 

Going somewhere, two people and a little bit of baggage, not enough weight to fill the tank. I now wonder how close I came to having a similar accident when I was a young lad operating out of Essendon.

 

More of a problem with the more powerful engine with fuel flows varying between 35 and 50 litre per hour depending on the tasks so altogether not easy to correlate a fuel log with dipstick readings over any number of flights.

 

(The T-6 model is altogether a more sensible aeroplane with a better dipstick)

Very pertinent comments. When Henry Millicer designed the Airtourer it was modelled around the 100 hp variant. He also used the rubber fuel cell that was in use with the Jindivik drone, and obligingly placed between the two spars in the fuselage. There are many positives with this design feature. Not too many Airtourers have burnt post bingles (Cliff Tait's being an interesting variant), but sitting on up to 28.7 gallons of avgas is initially unsettling.

 

Determining just how much fuel is on board the old girl has been a perenial problem for any Airtourer pilot. Full Tanks, no issue. Any less would be a challenge for Sherlock Holmes! You can not visually assess fuel quantity. The fuel gauge originally fitted probably lead to the adage of: "never trust a fuel gauge". The dipstick might give an accurate reading when all the planets are lined up. Uneven ground, wrong angle of the dangle and evaporation on a hot day all conspire for the prospective Airtourer pilot to not be entirely certain how much gas is on board.

 

Given the aerobatic capability of the Aitrourer, it has been used estensively in this role over many years. Fine airframe for aeros, but universally recognised as being horsepower challenged!! They reckon 150 hp is a bit short, but obviosly have not tried 100 hp!! Not too many pilots take an Airtourer up for aeros with a full tank. With two up 70 litres is about max anyway. Good design leaves only 0.3 of a gallon of unuseable fuel, but nose high atiitude or rapid accelleration is probably going to put low quatitiies of fuel at a point adjacent to the fuel pickup. Both fuel pumps are above the level of the fuel tank so you need at least one, preferably both working well to create noise up front.

 

It was sad to see MTC in such poor shape. It was the first 150 hp conversion done in Australia by Brain Davies at Jandakot in the early 70's. By the same token it took one hell of a hit, and still maintained enough structural integrity for the pilot to slide the canopy back and walk away. I am sure Henry would have walked out of the the great hangar in the sky, and smiled!