Hitting the wall

[bones]

Ok now this has happened to nearly ever student i have trained, and it is now happening again with another student that has come from another instructor ect ect, now he was having trouble getting his head around the basics, but then it just clicked like it does, next thing he was holding s&l up the strip at 20' going well started on the t&gos, was going good, then this morning some one constructed a bloody brick wall in his mind and it is like he is starting over again.

 

So a question to other instuctors or others with more training experience than i, is there anything i can do other than to just keep him as focused as possible, until the 3-4 hrs pass, which it usually takes, then they say "this is not that hard is it".

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Bones,

 

Is this a mature aged student? I train, and do training, and noticed that learning and retention of memory & processes are influenced by stress levels in life. An engineer acquaintence thought he was losing his memory but after talks to specialists it was simply he was hands on managing about 20 civil construction projects, keeping up with kids & various activities and trying to study part time at Uni. When he trimmed life back he found he could remember the concepts he was learning.

 

Laying down recent memory into long term memory usually requires reinforcing of the short term memory. Perhaps in this case, if there is a gap between lessons, give him some homework - to sit with a picture of a cockpit and talk himself through the process of landing etc. Aviation requires some actions to be drilled into a student so they become automatic in the event of a problem - to do this we repeat often until recall happens without us having to dig too hard.

 

The other, less likely, but more serious is the student may be having tiny neurological episodes or blood flow issues. The brain is a complex organ influenced by many environmental, social, dietary & genetic factors. I flew with a heavy smoker who routinely would fall asleep over 5,000 ft, the autopilot and I would make sure he was around for the landing. His lungs couldn't absorb oxygen efficiently so the higher we went the drowsier he got. He lost his commercial licence and hasn't flown for about 10 years but still smokes.

 

I would suggest the homework and before flying, run through all the processes to get the routine working well before the stress of actually flying the aircraft.

 

And don't worry, training is full of peaks & troughs. The worst student I know was an accountant who did the books for a LAME in return for free lessons. I can't remember how many hours he did (over 100 towards his PPL), but his instructor went grey trying to get him up to standard and he tried hard to grasp the processes. The LAME retired before he finished and I don't know that he ever did.

 

So, take heart, it will all come together.

 

Sue:)

 

 

[Thx1137]

I am a low hours pilot, not an instructor but having had a similar issue so I will just describe what the issue with me was...

 

I think there were a few reasons but for me the main one was that I thought the quality of my flying was really poor so I didn't trust myself. This lead to me questioning everything I did which made things worse. I remember saying to my instructor something like "its not that hard is it?" to myself and that was me trying to work out why I kept stuffing up. EG: Inbound I would forget to say my current height. I would be kicking myself over and over because it sounds like such a simple thing. If I am worring about that so much then how can I be focused on my flying which then leads to more errors...

 

Oh another was I had periods where I was tired, mainly because of work. Not much that can be done about that except as a human factors lesson!

 

So, for me at the time the main things to try to achieve were:

 

1. To relax. EG: being positive, allow time for enjoying the flight, sometimes a prompt to prepare before I needed to do something (like mentioning "we need an inbound call in a couple of minutes")

 

2. Make sure that they know they are doing well, given their experience. Only when they are of course :-)

 

3. For minor errors make sure they know of the issue but that it is minor. I think it is also useful to sometimes let them know what they should do if they make the mistake. EG: I had something like "Good inbound call however you didn't mention your height" I spent some time wondering if I should repeat the whole call with the height, just state the height in a second call or not do anything because if someone wanted to know they could ask...

 

I think I only needed this a couple of times before I got a bit more confident, it also helped teach me what a minor issue was and some corrective actions so if I did it again I didn't quietly stress about it so much.

 

Sometimes the reason they aren't relaxed (and able to focus) is because of non-aviation related factors so there might not be much you can do about it except to let them know that the reason they are having problems is because they are not relaxed. When back on the ground it can be a good real-world lesson for the student on human factors :-)

 

I seem to remember on one occasion where I was really not able to perform my instructor just said I seemed really tight so how about we just cruise a bit and enjoy the scenery. That lesson because S&L with some turning around a point and other bits disguised as sight-seeing :-)

 

After a flight it can be good to discuss good and not-so-good aspects of the flight. Especially negative easpects, the stress of the flying makes it easier to think and talk :-)

 

Steven.

 

 

[bones]

Sue and Steven, i understand all of what you both say, and i agree, i know they get through it, i turned out about 10 students now, but the thing is i was wondering if there is anything other than the ground talks ect, that could help them though some of the issues all students seem to have.

 

I dont concider myself an instructor, im just a pilot who can show someone how to fly. my dress code needs updating, i usually fly in shorts and an old work shirt.

 

I am just brain storming to try and help the students this is all.

 

 

[Acky]

As a student, i hit a wall wiht the inbound/outbound radio calls. I just couldnt get the information out properly. I worked on it, and got there, but in this case, it was something i had to do by myself. Here's an extract form my blog about it..

 

Since my last departing/joining lesson, I’ve spent some time in the car working the radio calls into my travels. “Adelaide Traffic, Nissan 752, departing upwind glen osmond rd, passing fullarton road climbing to Freeway, Tracking South East to Murray Bridge, Adelaide.” and ” Murray Bridge Traffic, Nissan 752 one zero miles north west at Freeway, Inbound, estimate main street one zero minutes, Murray Bridge”. I know it seems pathetic, but it seemed to work, or at least get the pattern of the calls straight in my head.

 

I'm not suggesting that would work for everyone, as we all learn differently. But as for the hand on the stick flying part, i think i gained a lot by swapping between instructors a bit, Both instructors had a different way to teach landings....i feel like one instructor inspired more self confidence and got me landing, and the other instructor refined my landings. So maybe some flying with a different instructor might help if thats an option?

 

The other thing that i noticed, as well as my instructor commenting on it, was how my flying deteriorated after passing my pre-solo air leg exam. I had to have a sit down and good think about things before i got my head back around it. I think it was the pre-solo jitters.

 

 

[bones]

One thing i need to say is this problem has NOTHING to do with the radio, i dont bother useing it unless there is another aircraft in the area, very few ac at the field so it is great for training.

 

the nearest airfield is about 1 hr fly away :)

 

 

[Acky]

Bones,

 

I wasnt suggesting it was. I was just using it as an example. I couldn't get my head around those calls when i was flying, it just wasn't happening.

 

As for the circuits, I spent a fair while at home trying to visualise all parts of the circuit, going through the downwind checks, etc. I spent some time flying circuits on a flight sim, just getting myself comfortable with the process. In the end, it all came together eventually, even though I felt like i\I frustrated/disappointed my instructor a couple times (wether i did or not, i don't really know). It was just a matter of doing it over and over and over. Then we were throwing full flap landings in. i was NOT comfortable with those at all to being with, but after a while (and a lot if internal panic!), i got the hang of it.

 

I think i just needed to relax, and get comfortable with it, then do it over and over.

 

But thats how i learn best, others are different.

 

 

[Acky]

Probably what i'm triyng to say is that i just needed time to get my head around everything. It was something I had to do and i dont think there was anything that my instructor could have done, other than let me go about it my own way and get comfortable with it myself.

 

 

[maddogmorgan]

Hi bones,sometimes its worthwhile doing something "different"....fly over to another nearby field and do a couple of t and gs...or it may be as simple as saying (on your next sortie).."the first circuit is mine and I'll talk you through what I'm doing"....students need to be re-calibrated regularly!!

Totally agree...just go for a fly! I did the last 15 hours or so of my ticket by flying for 2 hours every day for a week straight. I hit a bit of a wall with fatigue etc...my instructor took me for a fly along the beach for some low level flying...no circuits just flying. Made me remember to focus on why I was doing this.

 

 

[bones]

Totally agree...just go for a fly! I did the last 15 hours or so of my ticket by flying for 2 hours every day for a week straight. I hit a bit of a wall with fatigue etc...my instructor took me for a fly along the beach for some low level flying...no circuits just flying. Made me remember to focus on why I was doing this.

I agree and we do every now and agin, and i try to do it at the end of their last lesson if they not going to be back for awhile, 15 mins just flying to enjoy it :)

 

Acky, yeah no probs i get what your saying i just thought i would say that the call signs ect wasnt the issue.

 

Yes this particular guy is a mature guy, so i know from experience they take awhile longer to"click" just wondering if there is another i can do differently thats all.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yep, what CFIcare said. Do something different. Don't keep banging his head on "the wall". Do a short nav, a new sequence etc. Give him a taste of life 'post licence'.

 

Oh, and start thinking of yourself as an instructor. Perception is a huge part of what we do, how can you expect your students to 'perceive' you as an instructor if you don't perceive yourself as one. ;)

 

 

[mechfx]

I wrote down a very short summary of the things I remembered after every lesson I did, and then re-read it (in private) just before the next lesson. Much easier to remember from 5 minutes ago rather than last weekend ...... That way things were reasonably fresh and self doubt was minimised. I guess it was a log book but just for my eyes...

 

 

[Guest skidmark1975]

Hi bones,sometimes its worthwhile doing something "different"....fly over to another nearby field and do a couple of t and gs...or it may be as simple as saying (on your next sortie).."the first circuit is mine and I'll talk you through what I'm doing"....students need to be re-calibrated regularly!!

I couldnt agree more. Sometimes to watch the instructor on a circuit is a good way to stop, think and see whats going on for ourselves. I only have 100hrs and even still, once in the circuit and the instructor starts talking about the next approach or t&g (in a different a/c) whilst im doing downwind checks in my head, i simply cant take it all in.

 

Mark

 

 

[Barnstorm]

POST REMOVED - The forum is for the free sharing of knowledge, experience and advice among members. Not promoting the sale of a book - Mod

 

 

[Deskpilot]

As a mature student when I learnt to fly, I hit the same problems as previously mentioned. I couldn't get to feel as one with the aircraft. Solution, take it up to 5000ft and just weave around the white fluffy stuff up there. Up and over, down and under, follow 'caverns' etc until I knew that I could control the aircraft with safety.(CFI was listening for traffic so no worry) Talking of radios, who wasn't scared of stuffing up with the whole world listening, not as private as a cell phone is it. As for landing, a few "Don't you dare land" low and slow flights along the runway soon had me sorted (for Murray bridge guys, a James speciality)

 

Every instructor has a way of answering your questions or finding a solution to your particular problem. Don't be afraid to speak up, and get it sorted. You're not his/her first student with areas of uncertainty so don't think you'll be seen as the only dumbo out there. There are thousand of us.

 

 

[facthunter]

Plateau.

 

It could be a confidence problem or a function of the soundness or otherwise of the basic instruction so far. (Let's be brutal here, and examine ALL possibilities). I have always enjoyed instruction, but dealing with people is the most complex of all activities because everyone is different and they all come from diverse backgrounds. The more mature (older) have attitudes, and past experiences and sometimes delicate egos and may need special care.to make sure that they have GOT it. from a fairly slow start sometimes they will go on to be very sound pilots

 

As an instructor, you can never be sure that the message has got across unless you assess it , fully with some revision and follow-up. Get him to brief you as to what should be done. Be a bit diplomatic and gentle, but If he can't cover the basic situation then he is not across the sequence. You might have to overcome many preconceptions, but the bottom line is that the pilot must be CAPABLE of pulling off the exercise (satisfactory standard) and FEEL confident that he/she CAN do it. Without a minimum of confidence on any given occasion, you cannot be sure of a good result, no matter how well he did it last time.

 

OVER-confidence,( bravado )is also not helpfull, as it is defensive and not based on reality. Tempts someone to do things that are beyond their capability. Bad risk self assesment .

 

Students should not fly IF they have other problems. Flying is not like parking a car. They should not be fatigued or hung-over, either.. Nev

 

 

[ndy]

I am in command, take command!

 

Hey guys, the same happened to me also. The three biggest problems I had were:

 

1.:loopy:Stress or Fatigue:

 

If you are running a bit late for your flight or you have had a big day (or night) dont try to rush too much. Just take it easy and relax and the flight will go a whole lot easier. And I am sure the instructor wouldnt mind you being 10 mins late if you are going to fly a lot better and get things right. Just make sure you explain to them whats going on and why you are late.

 

2. :sad:Confidence:

 

Before each flight or when the weather is bad and you have got spare time, read through your notes and study up just to get it going through your brain again and thinking about what you need to do. Once you know the processes and you know what you need to do just go do it! I always tell myself " I know what to do just do it, I am pilot in command take command". If you know what to do and know the steps this statement becomes more true and effective. Even though technically I wasnt in command, this was a good confidence builder and it got me focused on the job at hand. Even now with my licence if I find myself not focused or confident with what I am doing I tell myself the same thing.

 

3. :sad:Focus:

 

I always had trouble focusing, as flying and seeing things from a different view is always awe inspiring:ah_oh:, but before the flight (at least half an hour) I tried to keep myself away from anything that would stress me or stick in my head. I would just study my notes and focus on the flight ahead and what I had to do/what was required. Thus the above 2 paragraphs really helped with this one. Try not to think about what the instructor is going to do next or how he thinks the flight is going just fly the aeroplane the way you were taught. Remember "I know what to do just do it, I am in command take command!"

 

The other thing that helped alot was the way Russell (my instructor) taught me. As I am a very independent person, for the first part of the lesson he took control and showed me how it is done, both on the ground and in the air, then it was my turn and I did it the way I was shown. Once I did it he then told me a few tips or helped me to do it better and away I go. After a bit of practice it then became natural. Thats the way I was taught, I know it probably wont work for some but it worked for me!

 

These things helped me I hope it helps some of you aswell;)!

 

Andrew