Remember Jack Newton !

[kaz3g]

Wondai said:..... , do you think that I quoted the correct legislative referance i.e : CASR part 137 ? , I mean who know's , may be I was wrong , the proper referance may be CASR part 133 or the CAO's or CAR's ??????

 

Yes, you used the correct regulation for the purpose:

 

CASR 137.115 Refuelling

 

(1) An operator must use appropriate safety procedures for the refuelling of each of the operator's aeroplanes that is used in an application operation

 

Penalty: 25 PU

 

What you perhaps didn't do is look at the relevant CAO.

 

CAO 20.9 at 4.3.1 All engines in the aircraft, including any auxiliary power units, must be shut down, except where CASA is satisfied that the operation of such an engine or auxiliary power unit will not present a hazard and where a statement to that effect, together with any special conditions for operation, is included in the operator’s operations manual if such a manual is required.

 

Note For this paragraph, CASA is satisfied if the aircraft flight manual permits operation of such an engine or auxiliary power unit.

 

You didn't say what make and model of aeroplane was involved, but I'd reckon it was a reasonable bet that it was turbine powered and had the required flight manual entry.

 

This may proof valuable to all of you at Coldstream that are pursuing "the commercial path" as a study assigment.

 

It's very kind of you, but I'm nearly 68 uears old and have done more than 27 years of part-time tertiary study in my life. I really doubt I'll head down the commercial path now.

 

Those that can obsorb the full time "intergrated uni diploma of aviation course long enough may even begin to realise that the modern working pilot especially in airlines is not the "hands on" real experienced Kingsford Smith seat of the pants type , they are in fact a Kevin Rudd analogy of "faceless men (and woman ) who's day to day working activity's mainly focuse on Human Factors , Work place relations , Aviation Legislation and other erea's that involve not so much the "hands on stick and rudder" as the expertise of a solicitor.

 

Good thing I'm a solicitor, then, isn't it? I probably couldn't get through that integrated diploma course, anyway.

 

I doubt many of my airline pilot friends would care for your KR analogy or for your dismissal of their hands on skills. The ones I know all fly little aeroplanes for fun, including Austers like mine

 

No Kaz , i'm not looking to divide or separate one group from another...

 

I'm glad because I certainly read your opening remarks as patronising, and therefore somewhat demeaning of those who are just "low-end fliers". It's good to be wrong, sometimes.

 

I am trying to set out the "reality" of this small plane aviation game in this day and age , the coot in the crop duster should of used the common sense to at least park the bloody thing well away from anyone that may have unwittingly walked into the propellor , its a little bush airstrip here Kaz , there's no ASIC type security to keep the public out here.

 

We don't have an ASIC or security at Coldstream, either. But we do have a fence to separate airside and public and I think we all know to stay away from a live airscrew.

 

I am how ever pleased that I stated the word "some" and not specifically me regarding the cowboy referance !

 

Fair enough

 

Ok , i'll give you one , there ya go , you got me ! , it's an engine not a motor .... I think ??? ... is it ???? Betto look up the CAO's Kaz under definitions and if it's close to poeple "TURN IT OFF" !

 

The CAO's (see above) are pretty clear they are engines. They were engines from the very beginning in the English style, just as they are aeroplanes (not 'planes) and are fitted with airscrews (not propellors). Have a look at the CAO's and you'll see lots of references to engines here... http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Search/engines

 

Cheers

 

kaz

 

Karen Gurney LLB(Hons), BAppSc, GradDipLegalPrac, Dip App Chem, Dip Public Sector Admin, ADASc, DTS, Cert Medn

 

Oh... PPL and RACert, too :-) and MBCoC... I forget sometimes...

 

 

[alf jessup]

Kaz,

 

It's definetly called an engine as you say, we don't have motor failures in aircraft, we have engine failures, also we have instument panels not dash boards lol

 

Wish I could put all those distinctions beside my name but for me it's plain old

 

Alf Jessup , Trike pilot, Jab pilot , Tecnam Sierra pilot

 

You do us proud with your posts, keep them up.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Tomo]

Ag Pilots are in the very essence, highly skilled pilots. That being said you do encounter the odd 'interesting' pilot, but I've come across that in any industry, and not just Aggies.

 

In my opinion, yes it's not good for an aeroplane to be left running without the pilot seated, turbines as others have stated are often left running due to the fact they operate on a 'start up' log as well (from my limited understanding). That being said, an aircraft running without a pilot is no more dangerous than an aircraft with a pilot. I'm not advocating it in anyway, but really... I live prop is a live prop whether there is a dude in the seat or not.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I actually find big radials more dangerous even when they are not running. anyone ever see a radial flick a blade with no one near it?

Tell us more, Ozzie. What happens and why?

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

The Airtractor I fly is burning 1.5 ltrs of fuel a minute at idle and therefore is rather loud. No one including me wants to be anywhere near it when it is idling on the ground. A Garrett is even worse, your ears are bleeding once you are within 10 meters of it. I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to inadvertently walk into a spinning prop on one of these machines.

 

 

[johnm]

more litres of fuel ................ for the fire .........

 

the 2 main ag operators at Wondai are piston powered - one an agwagon (6 cylinder) the other a brave (de-rated 8 cylinder ?)

 

I've talked to both and neither are clowns (you'll have to assume I am not one also)

 

wondai aviaition seems annoyed at what an ag operator did - its probable that the ag operator may also have been annoyed (only guessing) at what the wondai operator may have done (or said, or inferred, oe implied etc) ?

 

both have equal rights to the strip - so i'm sure its got to be a very small storm in a very, very little tea cup

 

 

[kaz3g]

Kaz,It's definetly called an engine as you say, we don't have motor failures in aircraft, we have engine failures, also we have instument panels not dash boards lol

 

Wish I could put all those distinctions beside my name but for me it's plain old

 

Alf Jessup , Trike pilot, Jab pilot , Tecnam Sierra pilot

 

You do us proud with your posts, keep them up.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

You are dead right there, Alf. In fact they were "instrument boards" in the early days and only became a "panel" when they started to accumulate more than the most basic of devices -- airspeed, altitude, oil pressure and engine temperature.

 

kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

more litres of fuel ................ for the fire .........the 2 main ag operators at Wondai are piston powered - one an agwagon (6 cylinder) the other a brave (de-rated 8 cylinder ?)

 

I've talked to both and neither are clowns (you'll have to assume I am not one also)

 

wondai aviaition seems annoyed at what an ag operator did - its probable that the ag operator may also have been annoyed (only guessing) at what the wondai operator may have done (or said, or inferred, oe implied etc) ?

 

both have equal rights to the strip - so i'm sure its got to be a very small storm in a very, very little tea cup

Aaarrrhhhhh

 

kaz!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Very small storm in a very small teacup for sure, Wondia in my opinion would do well to stay well clear of any ag-pilots' work area, and not to question their generally considerable amount of experience.......................Maj...