Calling out checks

[Razza]

After been a pax on a flight last week, its got me thinking...:rolleyes:

 

Obviously since i started my training its been good practice to verbally call out all my pre-take off checks, clearof checks, pre-landing checks etc.

 

However, at what point in the training do people feel that its no longer necessary and are happy enough to run through all these types of checks in their head rather than calling them out? Do you think its something that should always be done verbally? Does it change depending on the instructor, passengers etc?

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

FWIW, I still say them out loud ....perhaps quietly, and I make a point of taking a positive action for each item too so the checks don't become just a mantra ....

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Not since training.

 

I agree with Rocketdriver, that a "positive action for each item" is good. For my pre-flight checks I physically push, pull, check (as appropriate) every item checked. This includes such items as pip-pins, spark plugs, springs, lock wires, wheel spats, wing battens...

 

If I have a PAX, and the PAX is interested, then I'll talk through some of what I'm doing, but mostly keep the description generic or high level, as they can see what I'm doing. I don't engage in conversation while doing the checks,as that could be distracting. For pre-takeoff checks, I mainly just mention that I have some checks to do and will talk with them in a minute. I'll often explain that we are just waiting for the engine to get to operating temperature.

 

The one check in which I always involve the PAX, usually at the holding point, is to "check helmet and harness secure" and require a verbal response from the PAX (even though I've previously checked them).

 

 

[rick-p]

Not since training.I agree with Rocketdriver, that a "positive action for each item" is good. For my pre-flight checks I physically push, pull, check (as appropriate) every item checked. This includes such items as pip-pins, spark plugs, springs, lock wires, wheel spats, wing battens...

 

If I have a PAX, and the PAX is interested, then I'll talk through some of what I'm doing, but mostly keep the description generic or high level, as they can see what I'm doing. I don't engage in conversation while doing the checks,as that could be distracting. For pre-takeoff checks, I mainly just mention that I have some checks to do and will talk with them in a minute. I'll often explain that we are just waiting for the engine to get to operating temperature.

 

The one check in which I always involve the PAX, usually at the holding point, is to "check helmet and harness secure" and require a verbal response from the PAX (even though I've previously checked them).

This action each and every time you fly is 100% necessary because the one day you don't do it the wheels will fall off and you will come to grief.

 

You need to always say it out loud in the same order each time, looking at and touching everything on your list to see if it is ok.

 

An accident is no accident it occurs through a series of events that are either overlooked or ignored and they lead up to the occurrence of the incident.

 

This can occur in anything we do in life.

 

Situational awareness and stay focussed at all times don't lose place or your position because if you do, go back to square one and start again.

 

I lost a friend recently in very sad circumstances that could have only been so easily avoided just by thinking about the consequences of what was being done if the obvious occurred.

 

He was electrocuted when a power lead fell on to a hot muffler, melted through the insulation and energized the piece of machinery he was charging the battery on.

 

Always look at the big picture and say what if!

 

Even I myself had a serious accident the other week when I temporarily forgot about my surroundings, more engrossed on the job I was doing, got distracted and suffered a serious injury to my leg because of it.

 

Very lucky that I didn't lose it.

 

I had only an hour or so before warned my friend to be extremely careful of the particular situation of danger.

 

Anyway, in a nutshell do ALL YOUR CHECKS OUT LOUD, TOUCHING PULLING AND PUSHING ETC AND IF YOU DO GET DISTRACTED START OVER AGAIN IT MAY HEAD OFF THE FIRST STAGE OF A CHAIN OF EVENTS THAT LEAD TO AN INCIDENT YOU MOST DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN. :thumb_up:

 

Rick-p

 

 

[facthunter]

Years ago I was flying with a check captain, and the deal was the PNF. (Person not flying) read out the list and the PF. (i'll let you work out what that means) responds and does the checks. This check was HYDRAULICS. (call) The response involved checking the position of 2 levers and checking oil quantity and pressure.

 

The response was " bypass down ,gear lever up , pressure and quantity checked"... He came back with a perfect verbal response, but I had to point out to him that IN FACT, there was NO hydraulic pressure and NO indication of hydraulic oil quantity. In fact we had a ful blown hydraulic system FAILURE.

 

Beware of doing this kind of thing. Even with 2 crew and a written checklist this silly bugger could have invalidated the lot. He knew the checklist by heart alright , but didn't actually perform the CHECK.. Nev

 

 

[Thx1137]

I say mine out loud still. If i have a new pax i telll them beforehand that doing checks is normal and regular.

 

A couple of times i noticed i skimmed my checks. I did look but but was not sure i saw. Now i put my finger on each item i am checking and actually check it. Also, on occassion i might see that i did the checks quicker than normal so i do em again. There is nothing that is foolproof though.

 

 

[redozbris]

Why would anyone rush a check? Its there for a reason, follow the rules and no one intentionally gets hurt...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I still verbilize my checks, right throughout the flight in fact. I have to tell a new passenger that I talk to myself a bit, so they get the picture, otherwise they'll think I'm crazier than I actually am ??!!................................................Maj...

 

 

[HEON]

Still talk landing checks...especially wheels and prop to fine...would be interesting if you forgot either

 

 

[foxy]

i have to agree with rick-p.

 

doing the checks in your head is one thing...saying them out loud AND touching the things you are talking about, is paramount, i believe. through training, its pretty necessary to say them out loud, as, as an instructor,if i dont hear a student clearing each turn, or doing the downwind/clearof/fcmost checks, etc....i am assuming they are NOT doing them!!

 

as a licensed pilot, even when i am by myself, i will always say them out loud and still touch each thing. if you say it out loud, as well as say what you are checking for each thing, then you know that it has been done. these checks are there for a reason, and should be treated as important as flying the aeroplane is itself.

 

liz

 

 

[pudestcon]

Yep, I'm in the 'say out loud and touch' brigade, although I get some queer looks when I say that's what I do!

 

Pud

 

 

[Razza]

LOL pud, be careful who you say that too!

 

I still say it out loud and touch everything 95% of the time and on the rare occasion that I choose not to verbalise the checks, I still say them out loud in my own head and touch them too.

 

A few pilots I've gone up with however, dont do it and even my instructor just does it all without saying a word...hence why I thought I would pose the question for the wise folks on this site :thumb_up:

 

 

[dazza 38]

I was in a Cessna 182 being flown by a CPL. He did his in cabin checks "on the run" while taxing for take-off. Not something I would ever attempt but it seemed to work for him. To be fair, it was not his first flight in that aircraft that day. I do remember the checks but do them off a checklist as an aid to not missing any. I did miss flaps to take off once but fortunately I was alone, with plenty of runway length and not carrying much fuel. Couldn't understand why it was taking so long to get off the ground! If I had been at MTOW and on a shorter runway it could have become quite ugly.

I have been with a couple of CPL guys who do their checks on the run, I have never ask them why because Im pretty sure it comes down to the "time is money" thing.

Ps- I also have seen some pilots who seem to be afraid when doing their walkaround, to touch and/ or grab the bits and pieces of the Aircraft. They look with their eyes but dont have a good grab of a part.EG- Flaps, Horizontal Stabs/ elevator, rudder, fin, wheels etc.You can pick up alot by having a good feel.Just dont touch the exhaust pipe if it has just been running LOL

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I'm am often in the habit of doing my checks on the run, usually as I'm taxing to the take-off point, and backtracking down a long runway. If you are intimatley familiar with your aircraft, it can't take more than ten seconds at the most, and does not cause any problems. Different story of course if I have a passenger and need to give a safety brief, I'll do that and all my checks before moving off. Most good pilots will do a final quick check before putting the throttle foward anyway, don't they ?.......................................... Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Most "work" pilots do checks while on the move. If things get busy , you stop the check and pay attention to the higher priority item, ( you might be getting an amended clearance) Nonetheless if you are not ready for it say, "stand by". YOU call the shots. Early students or pilots who have not flown for a while should not be asked to do these things, while taxying. Manage the workload and keep the flow so you don't miss anything. This means that if you are not sure, you say "confirm...." If you are interupted during a check and unsure do the lot again. Doing a mag check on the move using brakes or such action is not on . ( Instant FAIL ).

 

My view is that if the check has been done carefully you don't repeat it unless something out of the ordinary has occurred. ie Mum brings a cake over and you open the door, unbuckle your harness, and stow it in the back.). or you have been taxying with the mixture lean to stop sooting the plugs. This is necessary with some engines and would be a bit of a trap. Put a clothes peg with a red ribbon or such over the mixture control or throttle. YOU are the one responsible and you have to have the checks in place, that make you operation as safe as possible. Checklists are there for a real purpose, not just window dressing. Quite a few planes take off with gust locks in place. Flawed check system for sure. Controls FREE is the last check I perform., It will remind the passenger to keep his/her legs away from the controls, if nothing else. . Another one is EVERYTIME you advance the throttle fully, check CARB HEAT COLD/OFF. Do it automatically. Nev

 

 

[sfGnome]

Razza,

 

As a reasonably low-hours pilot I noticed that my pre-landing checks were getting a bit sloppy, but that all cleared up when I started saying them out loud again. It seems that the act of talking kept me focussed on what I was doing, so now I always speak 'em out, regardless of who is with me.

 

I had a funny reaction from a mate who I took on a quick trip to Goulburn and back. I guess he was expecting it to me like a car on a freeway - press the cruise control, point the nose and sit back - and he said afterwards "It didn't seem very relaxed; you were pretty busy". The constant scan, scan, scan, check inside, navigate, pause conversation to listen to radio calls, etc wasn't at all what he expected a flight to be.

 

 

[facthunter]

He probably had no idea what to expect. People who don't fly, live in a ground-based familiar and predictable, (to them) world. Flying is a "whole new world" . The first time I flew supernumerary in a commercial Jet cockpit It was like flying to the moon (About 1970).. Couldn't believe the thing could do M.88.. You do get a bit more Blaise unfortunately, later, but the marvel of it never quite goes....Nev