How affected by wind is the X-Air?

[rdarby]

I currently fly a Sportstar and realise that an X-Air is in a different league, but when coming close to buying a Sportstar I have also thought that I should maybe start smaller and cheaper, as it will mean not pulling equity out of my house!

 

How usable is an X-Air in the day though, is it only a morning in the calm type of aircraft like a trike, or can it do more than a trike in terms of withstanding weather?

 

How does it do in cross winds? At the moment I'm fine (with white knuckles and ground teeth) in the Sportstar to land in a 15kts cross wind, but I suspect an X-Air will just get blown away?

 

Ryan

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Ryan, have not been in an X-Air, but there is one hangared with my trike. The owner tends to fly calm conditions, but his reason is that he flies for fun and had to endure all manner of conditions as a commercial pilot. He has often assumed that conditions were too uncomfortable for a trike, but I have not found that to be well founded when I have taken off into the same conditions.

 

I think you may have underestimated the capabilities of a trike. A skilled pilot can land in a 30kn crosswind. I've done a number of landings in 20G25 during training and flown in wind gusting to 60kn. I and others also fly during the middle of the day with quite a bit of thermal turbulence. It can be done, just some choose not to fly in these conditions.

 

 

[GDL]

Hi Ryan. I am a Canadian ultralight pilot but I recently (last month) took a British Microlight licence in Portugal. I flew the X-Air with a 912 engine there (I flew about 20 plus hours). It is slow but it handled winds up to about 20 knots easily. I own a Rans S6 and the X Air handles quite differently on landing but I was comfortable by the time I finished. No problems.

 

 

[campslive]

Hi Ryan. I am a Canadian ultralight pilot but I recently (last month) took a British Microlight licence in Portugal. I flew the X-Air with a 912 engine there (I flew about 20 plus hours). It is slow but it handled winds up to about 20 knots easily. I own a Rans S6 and the X Air handles quite differently on landing but I was comfortable by the time I finished. No problems.

hi i fly my x air when ever i can and have been caught in some really rough weather ,,was a little bare knuckled but have since learnt its best to relax and just use rudders as per instructors advice,,

other than that yes the x air is a great first aircraft and great hour builder,,,

 

i started in trikes and then thruster back to trikes and after 40 odd hrs in x airs am wondering what the next step is,,

 

 

[GDL]

Hi Campslive. I flew the X Air in Portugal in reasonably rough weather. 20-25 kts partial crosswind on landing, some rough flying at altitude. It is similar to most ultralights in that once you relax and control rather than fight the aircraft, then it flies very nicely. Rudders are critical in it (same with my Rans). Since you have only 40 hours in it, you probably have a lot of growth in understanding all aspects of flight (especially different conditions when landing). Going from my Rans to the X Air I found it very limited in speed. If you want to travel further than something faster is needed (or more patience!). But do you think your have mastered it completely? My instructors in Portugal thought it a great trainer because you need to fly it. I would agree.

 

By the way, what engine do you have in it?

 

Geoff

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I have a mate on a station with one and he flys in all weather and winds, daily. They are fine in wind once you get to know them and quite manouverable also. Better to land in wind than say a Thruster IMOP..........................Maj...

 

 

[GDL]

I concur with Maj. Very comfortable in the winds I flew in.

 

 

[campslive]

Hi Campslive. I flew the X Air in Portugal in reasonably rough weather. 20-25 kts partial crosswind on landing, some rough flying at altitude. It is similar to most ultralights in that once you relax and control rather than fight the aircraft, then it flies very nicely. Rudders are critical in it (same with my Rans). Since you have only 40 hours in it, you probably have a lot of growth in understanding all aspects of flight (especially different conditions when landing). Going from my Rans to the X Air I found it very limited in speed. If you want to travel further than something faster is needed (or more patience!). But do you think your have mastered it completely? My instructors in Portugal thought it a great trainer because you need to fly it. I would agree.By the way, what engine do you have in it?

 

Geoff

hi mate 582 rotax blue head oil injected, 3 blade brolga prop both engine prop and gearbox only done 34hrs, i did 90 odd hrs in airborne trikes before the x air

and i agree i do not think i have completly mastered the beast,,we have had some really horrible weather of late 15 to 20 knot winds up to 3000 ft then increasing to 25t

 

makes flying uncomfortable even when using just the rudder you start wishing you were down stairs looking up,,i dont think the weather would be any better in a trike maybe worse?

 

as for landings have them pretty down pat even in crosswinds,,,got caught in 20 knot winds changing from 140deg to 170,,,

 

i love the challenge of having to fly the beast but am not enjoying the winds of late ,,,

 

and like wise would love something faster than 65knots indicated but what do you buy that does not cost an arm and a leg?

 

over here [australia] we get bitten quite hard gst on gst on gst oh i forgot import cost,,,

 

other problem is importers get a little creedy and like a little more cream on there cake !

 

same your way?

 

cheers graham

 

 

[campslive]

I have a mate on a station with one and he flys in all weather and winds, daily. They are fine in wind once you get to know them and quite manouverable also. Better to land in wind than say a Thruster IMOP..........................Maj...

i agree came in on final once with slight crosswind and as i got below the tree line the wind completly vanished so did the airspeed and did 2 beautifull bounces from about 5 ft in the air,,

but i give the trhuster one thing it only bent a spring and a little nose pod rearranging ops!!!!!

 

to my half owner brothers bewilderment,,

 

that ended my thruster days and back to my beloved trike,,,

 

until i found the x air,,,

 

cheers graham

 

 

[GDL]

hi mate 582 rotax blue head oil injected, 3 blade brolga prop both engine prop and gearbox only done 34hrs, i did 90 odd hrs in airborne trikes before the x airand i agree i do not think i have completly mastered the beast,,we have had some really horrible weather of late 15 to 20 knot winds up to 3000 ft then increasing to 25t

makes flying uncomfortable even when using just the rudder you start wishing you were down stairs looking up,,i dont think the weather would be any better in a trike maybe worse?

 

as for landings have them pretty down pat even in crosswinds,,,got caught in 20 knot winds changing from 140deg to 170,,,

 

i love the challenge of having to fly the beast but am not enjoying the winds of late ,,,

 

and like wise would love something faster than 65knots indicated but what do you buy that does not cost an arm and a leg?

 

over here [australia] we get bitten quite hard gst on gst on gst oh i forgot import cost,,,

 

other problem is importers get a little creedy and like a little more cream on there cake !

 

same your way?

 

cheers graham

Do you have the F or H model? I flew the F model with a 912 and it was a strange handling machine at low power settings - mostly from the prop wash. This plane cruised at no more than 55 kts (but then the school limited us students to 4400 rpm). I was bothered by wind when I started out but now I look at it as a challenge (keeping in mind that I never exceed my or the plane's limits). On the other hand, it is certainly restful and peaceful flying under ideal (i.e. no wind) conditions occasionally.

 

I am also going through the process of finding a faster plane than my Rans (~85 kts). But cost is the problem. We are a little more lucky than your in Australia because no import duties anymore for bringing in US LSA aircraft. And as the US economy sinks, so does the price of used aircraft. But still very expensive and currently beyond my means.

 

 

[campslive]

Do you have the F or H model? I flew the F model with a 912 and it was a strange handling machine at low power settings - mostly from the prop wash. This plane cruised at no more than 55 kts (but then the school limited us students to 4400 rpm). I was bothered by wind when I started out but now I look at it as a challenge (keeping in mind that I never exceed my or the plane's limits). On the other hand, it is certainly restful and peaceful flying under ideal (i.e. no wind) conditions occasionally.I am also going through the process of finding a faster plane than my Rans (~85 kts). But cost is the problem. We are a little more lucky than your in Australia because no import duties anymore for bringing in US LSA aircraft. And as the US economy sinks, so does the price of used aircraft. But still very expensive and currently beyond my means.

hi geoff,

mine is an early 98 model

 

airframe totally rebuilt by previous owner,

 

installed new wiring icom radio and new 582blue head and new prop and gearbox,,

 

he did 12 odd hrs and lived a long way from holbrook airfield,,

 

at the time i had a 99 model with 618 rotax and sold it to purchase a 2005 model x air with 36 hrs but got all the way to narrabri 10hr drive or more only to find bent under carriage etc,,

 

not as advertised,, IT REALLY UPSETS ME WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT HONEST AND PUT MINIMAL INFO ON THERE ADVERTISEMENTS,,,

 

even worse after a 10 hr drive ,it took some great deal of control to keep one self polite ,,

 

he had a level 2 inspection done but half the exhaust springs where missing and it got worse,,

 

and i was supposed to fly it home after the owner had it ready to fly????

 

oh well ended up buying the 98 model,,great machine

 

but am at a stage want to pay the mortgage out completly within 3 years so looks like might have to down grade back to an early model tike shortly??

 

cheers graham

 

 

[GDL]

Hi Graham. Sucks when a plane you want to buy turns out to be not what you expect. I had that happen on my first purchase. Was suppose to be ready to fly & wasn't. Bought it anyway and didn't regret but was choked at the time.

 

What was the 618 like? I have flown behind 503 and 582 engines but never the 618. Don't see many in North America because only sold for a few years. The 912 on the X Air I flew really wasn't completely suitable. Too much power and at low rpm in the air bounced the plane around with the prop wash. But comfortable plane to fly most of the time.

 

 

[campslive]

Hi Graham. Sucks when a plane you want to buy turns out to be not what you expect. I had that happen on my first purchase. Was suppose to be ready to fly & wasn't. Bought it anyway and didn't regret but was choked at the time.What was the 618 like? I have flown behind 503 and 582 engines but never the 618. Don't see many in North America because only sold for a few years. The 912 on the X Air I flew really wasn't completely suitable. Too much power and at low rpm in the air bounced the plane around with the prop wash. But comfortable plane to fly most of the time.

618 was great heaps of power,i had a bolly ground adjustable prop set at 17deg pitch and you could honestly set the power at 6200rpm pull the stick back to 55knots and watch the altimeter climb,,looking at vsi we were climbing at 400 ft/min 2 up full fuel,,,we tried a stall at cruise 65 knots 3000ft by the time it stalled we were at 3500ft and could still feel the prop biting,,just had a slight fluttter,,,

have not flown any other motors but there is a jabiru powered one over here for sale but they are well known for short life span and heating proplems,,

 

 

[GDL]

The flying school in Portugal had an X Air with a Jabiru 2200 (before I got there) and according to my instructor tended to shed parts around the circuit. They gave up when the engine lost a piston at the critical part of the circuit. Interesting about the 618. Of the 2-strokes (I have perhaps 50 hrs total time on them) I really like the 503 but of course most 2-place aircraft are underpowered.

 

Sounds like the 618 had great power. In the US, you see a lot of other Rotax snowmobile engines being used - 670 and the like. They produce huge amounts of power but I would be afraid of their reliability. After all, we are in the air and parking by the cloud is not usually an option :)

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The 618 did produce a lot of power ((around 80hp from memory) but was discontinued by Rotax some years back. They are probabily the least reliable Rotax 2-stroke produced. Rotaxs' other current 2-strokes are very reliable and great little engines.

 

The 618 hade a different RAVE adjustable exhaust reed valve set up which was prone to failure, and then was capable of contacting the piston itself. Probabily a good idea on paper but getting away from the KISS theory so therefore more complicated and more things to fail.

 

I wouldn't buy anything with a 618 due lack of parts support from Rotax now.

 

The Xairs with the bluetop 582 have plenty of power, and you have a proven and reliable engine that'll produce a solid 65 HP at around 17 lts per hour..................................................................Maj...

 

 

[GDL]

Maj, I had heard vague rumors about the unreliability of the 618. You see them on aircraft around here (that is North America) occasionally. The 582 could be unreliable at times (especially compared to 503) if the pilot mishandled. I had a Rans burn a piston when the pilot got it hot then pulled the power off to cool. I like your thoughts about KISS on engines, although I would prefer a fuel injection system on Rotas engines to get rid of carb balancing & icing (not usually a problem but very occasionally)).

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

Talking about the Xair Standard (pod & boom) model or the Xair Hanuman same as my Avitar picture. The Hanuman is faster than the standard Xair same handling qualities alot easier to get in & out of the Hanuman is set up more for X country than the standard in saying that there are pilots out there with standard Xair 's that do some great X country trips. It all comes down to personal preferrence & how much coin you are willing to depart with.

 

Cheers

 

 

[eightyknots]

I like your thoughts about KISS on engines, although I would prefer a fuel injection system on Rotas engines to get rid of carb balancing & icing (not usually a problem but very occasionally)).

Six fuel-injected Rotax 912s have been flying in Europe for extensive reliability testing.

 

You'll be able to order an injected very Rotax soon. They are heavier, produce the same power but use considerably less fuel.

 

 

[Guest 4aplat]

Six fuel-injected Rotax 912s have been flying in Europe for extensive reliability testing.You'll be able to order an injected very Rotax soon. They are heavier, produce the same power but use considerably less fuel.

You'll have to fly a lot before the "less fuel price" will be the same as the extra cost of the fuel injected rotax

 

The 80 hp rotax with carb isan easy engine (mainteance) and don't use a lot of fuel with a good prop

 

MicheL

 

 

[facthunter]

The injected Rotax is an expensive option. Hirth two-atrokes are injected. Popular in europe but not common here. Nev

 

 

[eightyknots]

You'll have to fly a lot before the "less fuel price" will be the same as the extra cost of the fuel injected rotaxThe 80 hp rotax with carb isan easy engine (mainteance) and don't use a lot of fuel with a good prop

 

MicheL

I noticed this interview [posted just last week] which gives a good description about the numerous changes made to the 912ULS to morph into the 912iS.

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

Talking about the Xair Standard (pod & boom) model or the Xair Hanuman same as my Avitar picture. The Hanuman is faster than the standard Xair same handling qualities alot easier to get in & out of the Hanuman is set up more for X country than the standard in saying that there are pilots out there with standard Xair 's that do some great X country trips. It all comes down to personal preferrence & how much coin you are willing to depart with.Cheers

How easy do you find operating the 'folding wing' arrangement on the X-Air "H"?

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

How easy do you find operating the 'folding wing' arrangement on the X-Air "H"?

I haven't folded me wings as yet I have no need to at the moment. I think you would need 2 people to fold it the first couple of times ,but once you get use to it you would be able to do it by yourself. I think it would take around 20 min to de-rig & setup again. Ill post some pictures of the folding wing setup.

1st picture shows elbow & safety cable

 

2nd picture is wings all ready for mounting

 

3rd picture is the cross tube where the elbows slide onto the safety cables are attached to the 2 bolts in the centre of the cross tube.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[Phil Perry]

have since learnt its best to relax and just use rudders as per instructors advice

Hi Guys, Dunno what model X'Air you are referring to here,. . . ours was an early 2000s model kit. . . We built it back in 2003. It had the Rotax 582 Oil Injected Blue top engine, a 3 blade Arplast composite Ecoprop, and the Rotax type "E" gearbox with starter motor mounted at the front of the engine installation, allowing for the retention of the pull start rope assembly at the rear. this, when two up, gave 55 MPH at 18 - 19 Lph fuel burn, reading approx 5,500 to 5,600 RPM on the Flydat. It was quite controllable in moderate crosswinds also, but anything above 15 Kt at 90 degrees to the strip, and you would find that controllability would become an issue, even when using the "Wing Down into wind" sideslip landing technique. Did someone on here mention a 60 Kt crosswind ????? get real please, that would blow a 747 off the bloody runway, and I wouldn't try flying ANY light aircraft in winds like that, even taxying into wind would be extremely risky, and as for an Ultralight / Microlight with a flying speed in the 40 Kts range. . . . ? ? ? ?. Perhaps not. - Microlights + Thermic Gusts. . . . . Bad combination.

 

In the main, they are a really nice, easy to fly aeroplane, but as with anything else, in hot weather conditions, you WILL tend to suffer some turbulence. [ nature of the planetary physics ] ( I'd rather have that than the damned Snow and freezing temps we've got here ! ! !)

 

I was interested in the comments re "Using Rudder Only" ?? I always found that ( our model ) X'Air, as well as three similar types I've flown, had very well harmonised controls and quite serviceable ailerons and very little adverse yaw effect when turning, even if you were a bit lazy when balancing with the rudder pedals. The old Weedhopper and it's later brother the Cyclone AX3, had that problem, useless ailerons . . . this was mainly due to the additional "Sweepback" geometry of the wings. . . but I've never noticed anything like that on the early model X'Air, and I've flown it for around 400 hours.

 

Ours has well exceeded 1200 hours now, and they will, if serviced at regular intervals and treated kindly.

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I currently fly a Sportstar and realise that an X-Air is in a different league, but when coming close to buying a Sportstar I have also thought that I should maybe start smaller and cheaper, as it will mean not pulling equity out of my house!How usable is an X-Air in the day though, is it only a morning in the calm type of aircraft like a trike, or can it do more than a trike in terms of withstanding weather?

 

How does it do in cross winds? At the moment I'm fine (with white knuckles and ground teeth) in the Sportstar to land in a 15kts cross wind, but I suspect an X-Air will just get blown away?

 

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

 

I. . . ( with a bit of assistance ! ) built an X'Air 582 Marque 1 Bluetop back in 2006, and it is still flying to this day, with over 1,000 hours on the airframe. It was purchased from the widow of an old friend named Harry Hall, who had built the fuselage bit, and then died very quickly I might add. . . of pancreatic cancer. The plane was hoisted in his factory unit, so he could work on it after hours, and some wag had nicked the Garmin GPS3 from the panel. . . ! ( so much for employees. . . .) She was offered a couple of grand ( £GBP ) for the project, and I thought that this was a bloody insult, so I got a syndicate of TEN Club members together and we gave her £1,000 each, which I thought ws a more than fair price. ( we later found receipts in all the associated cartons and boxes totalling over £13,500 . . . . Harry, God bless him, ex - trike pilot,. . . had bought more instruments than you could fit in a Boeing 737 ! when he sold his Pegasus Quasar Trike, it had so many gizmos in it, that three guys came to blows over who was going to buy it from him. . . . .

 

We then bought a polytunnel steel framed hangar for around £2000, wired it up with some lighting, and finished the build in roughly seven months, including a Cabin Heater mod, which I need to email to Hank ( eightyknots) as he's interested in that as well, ( but I dunno how to send a 2.9 megabyte .PDF file to the forum ! ! ! ) Better ask Admin 1 methinks. . .

 

After the test flight programme was completed by the redoubtable John Hamer, ( with whom I flew in my first trike aeons ago. . . ) I became the chief pilot of the syndicate, as I was the only bloke who had a licence to fly an aeroplane ( not because of any surplus of skill ! ! ) So I got to carry out all the 25 hours proving flights, with other syndicate members as victims . . .er, I mean Ballast / PASSENGERS.

 

After flying in this machine for somewhere between 600 and 700 hours, . . . I think I should be able to comment on it's abilities with some experience. OOOps WE HAVE A POWER CUT, GOT TO SHUT DOWN BEFORE THE UPS RUNS OUT OF BATTERIES.

 

SEE YOU IN PART 2