J230 @ YSWG

[Ross]

Hi Jan

 

Once the flaps are installed on the wings life is not so simple.

 

If the end of the wing is dropped with the strut removed the flaps will be damaged and the fairingsfor streamling epoxiedto the fuselage level wth the inboard side of the flaps will be crushed. Captain (Geoff) was yet to epoxy thefairingsto the fuselage as am I.

 

Another Geoff suggeststhat it is easier to get the fairings mounted at the correct position (angle of attack wise) if the wings and flaps are also installed. Itis not so easy to adjust the angleafterwards with a heat gun on the fairings.

 

Best to (I don't know if I have to) remove the flaps before removing the wings. There are alsofairings at the inboard and outboard ends of the struts to consider and remove if they have been mounted.

 

The book is in the garage - too far away!

 

Regards Ross

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Thanks Ross. I just got very excited when I thought it was easy as it would be another tick against a great aircraft.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Captain]

Jan

 

There used to be a couple of photos on the Jabiru website that showed an aircraft on a trailer with the wings in cradles... I think it was in the UK.

 

Ross is right with his advice and with the fuel in the wings it adds another set of problems ... not only with disconnection of fuel lines, which could probably be solved with quick connectors, but you can't lift the buggers if there is fuel in them and the vents would leak etc etc.

 

The fairing that Ross mentioned is shown in the pic below. I THINK it needs to be screwed on but am checking on that. Does anyone know?

 

Also below are doors finish primed ... there is more work in that than you think to get them spot on for shape.

 

Also have donea final attack on the bottom cowl to get the shape right down the bottom where it mounts onto the fuselage.

 

And below that is a shot of the lower strut fairings all attached and ready to be faired in tomorrow with a bit of luck.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain]

Had a good day today ... well I feel that way, anyway.

 

Hit the job at sparrow-phart and finally have the cowl & its gaps just about where I want it, + havebogged in the lower strut fairings, then got all of the stickers on the panel.

 

That was 10 solid hours, bearing in mind that I am slow and finicky ... but have a look at the amount of dust on the floor from today's effort. It's not much fun having that stuff cascading down all over you while you are overhand sanding. I wonder if I'll miss that when this is all over?

 

Now I'm off to Wakefield Park for the post-classic bike racing this weekend.

 

Regards

 

Captain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

try sanding with one hand and holdthe vacume cleaner nozzel with the other. your lungs will thank you for it regardless if you use a mask

 

 

[Captain]

Ross

 

You asked for pics of behind the panel.

 

I assure you that they will look a lot better soon, as there is a place for everything and everything has a place ... I hope.

 

As you can see, it is still in the kitchen area and I wonder if any of you blokes can translate for me. When a wife says "Get this crap out of my kitchen or else!" is she really saying:

 

1 "I want you darling"

 

2 "You may spend whatever you like to get this project completed quickly, sweetheart"

 

3 "Get this crap out of my kitchen or else!"

 

Please help as I need to either formulate a response or buy more bits.

 

Geoff

 

 

 

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Geoff

 

Sounds to me like you have the right strategy worked out already putting it in the kitchen. I wasn't game.

 

All of mine (our bits) is (are)in the carport except for the prop which is lying flat on the floor (see Jabiru instructions) behind a lounge chair in the living room.

 

If I had that much wire in the J160 I would probably need a bigger engine. That brown vase must be feeling very nervous being that close to the work in progress.

 

Your J20 paneldoes look like the beginning of a very neat job. Keep us posted?

 

Regards

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Geoff,

 

women are complex creatures. I think if you examine those options carefully you'll find they aren't mutually exclusive.

 

She means all 3.

 

My qualification to make that call? I've been married 3 times.

 

Read into that what you will (and take my advice accordingly).

 

Thanks for logging your progress in this thread. It's been very illuminating.

 

I would love to build one day, but I think my 1st aircraft will be second hand.

 

Hope you are airborne soon,

 

Ross

 

 

[Guest Vigilant]

Geoff - MATE - it is easy, anyone who can build an aeroplane is OBVIOUSLY a GOD - she wants you

 

 

[Captain]

Thanks to Vigi & Slarti for your advice.

 

Given your experience and conviction I acted upon them both.WRONG. It appears that she didn't mean either of Items 1 or 2 ..... so I've been out in the shed again and below is the latest.

 

Is this the Kitbuilder's best friend?And no, I don't mean his hand ... although some would say that you have to be one to take on a kitbuilding project. No comment from me on those that think that.

 

[ATTACH]246[/ATTACH]

 

Below are a couple of shots of Wing preparation for flap & aileron attachment.

 

[ATTACH]247[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]248[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]249[/ATTACH]

 

Soaring conditions have been great around here this week .... and one of the blokes in Corowa did 750 kms cross-country yesterday. I've gotta get this project finished, quick sticks and get at it again. This photo was at 11 am. You should have seen it at 2.30 pm with the bases of the Cu's at about 9000.

 

[ATTACH]250[/ATTACH]

 

Regards Captain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Geoff

 

It is looking good. I was going to say what was the black spot in the last pic. It turned out to be just that when I zoomed in on the saved pic and scrolled up and down,the black spotdid not move.

 

You're right about the tool - the one in your hand,a Dremel. Dremel is the brand name and very well known in some circles and although mentioned as being a very useful tool by Jabiru in their construction manual, I had never heard of it. I eventually did a web search which solved the problem. They have some very nice little carbide tipped tools which might be what you have in your pic or the mini cut off abrasive disc. But please wear protective glasses if using one as it rotates at up to 20,000 rpm I think. It is a big improvement on using a hand held hacksaw blade or a 4" right angle grinder for jobs like the one illustrated.

 

They have a mains powered versionand a battery powered version.

 

I think the job you are showing(with the mains powered Dremel)would tax the battery powered version which doesn't come with anextra battery. The bricks certainly are handy though not mentioned in my construction manual!

 

I saw the Narrandera J230 on Sunday and had my first Tecnam P92conversion flight with Wally Rudin. I had a look under the panelof the J230 but all I could see was a mess of wires. I took some photos with the macro setting on the camera lens which might make more sense when I blow them up.

 

By the way the fairings on the bottom of the struts and main UC beam are attached by set screws on the Narrandera factory builtJ230 although they are already complaining about them coming loose or falling out (the self tappersthat is). They are over 25 hours now I think.

 

Regards Ross

 

 

[Captain]

Thanks Ross.

 

My mains powered Dremel spins to a max over 30,000 rpm if needed and I've already had one of the cutting discs, as shown in the pic,fly to pieces. Not that much fun.

 

The few jobs where I have found it most useful would not be handled by the battery powered unit. A couple of cutting jobs, like that shown on the wings were the slot is needed for the ailerons really make it work hard and it gets super hot. But you can be very accurate when using it. I see that they have a new version in the stores now with a digital controller. They look nice.

 

Can you post a couple of pics of under Roger's dash (if his syndicate don't mind) as I forgot to have a squizz there at W-O-W.

 

I looked at all of the J200/230/400's at W-O-W and bonding those fairings to the fuselage makes them look more part of the plane. I suspect that if they aren't bonded on, a dab of resin on the screws is needed to encourage them to stay put ... and evenwhen you/I bond the main lower strut fairing, the rear top strut fairingand also the top fairing at rear of the wings, the smaller removeable sections that attach to them will be getting a dab of resin on them on mine, once the inspector has finished inspecting.

 

How did you find the P92 compared to the J160 & J230? Are you selling your kit and ordering one?

 

Best regards

 

 

[Ross]

Geoff

 

I have a few limitations like $s, a wife and years. I think the J160 will stretch the budget enough.

 

I have only had one flight half hour flight in the J160 from the two Geoffs at Mildura and none in the J230. My very limited experience leads me toone comment from that flightis, I thought the J160 needed a few more horses and I suppose the J230 is the answer to that especially if you register it at 544Kg. As for it's other characteristics I don't know except that I was rather impressed by some violent manoevres just on roundout to avoid a flock of birds that was very interested in a heap of grasshoppers that we were about to land on. I was sure we were about to experience a low level stall but we landed a bit further down the strip quite comfortably without that sinking feeling.

 

I shall ask Roger about the photos.

 

Regards Ross

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Roger

 

I took a few photos of your syndicate J230 at Narrandera on Sunday. Is it OK if I post them over to Captain at Wagga.

 

Regards

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Geoff

 

I rang Roger (He'll probably kill me the next time he sees me, if he doesn't his wife will.) He said OK so here they are. I could not see what I was taking I just poked the camera in there set on macro and auto focus. One is badly flared but the others might make sense to you.

 

I will log off as the system has gone bannanas again.

 

Regards

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Geoff

 

Roger mentioned that the magnetometer is mounted under the seat.

 

Geoff if they are anyuse to youandyou want them in higher resolutionup to 600 kBytes email me.

 

Regards

 

Ross

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

It's nicely set up for flying from the right seat with those duplicate instruments there. I jumped into the right seat to "covert" someone on the weekend after a while out of it. It's a good idea to go up with someone qualified in the left if you are contemplating flying from the right for a few circuits until you are ready for it. Flying from the left you fly by "feel," whereas flying from the right (well at first anyway) you are flying by the numbers and instruments. It's hard to explain, just be careful.

 

The compressed air powered "Die-Grinder" is the Jabiru builders best friend. Around $60+ and very very powerful compared to the dremel. It doesn't get hot, takes a range of attachments and requires a drop of oil each day when using it. Only downside is that they can be a little noisy. Scary to use near your fingers because they have a habbit of "skewing" off the target and running over your hands / fingers, however I'm yet to suffer a serious injury from one.

 

 

[Captain]

1 Nice to see you back and posting on this topic again Clem.

 

You've been quiet lately. Have you been away again?

 

2 Geeeez those graphics on Roger's 230 look nice in the pic and even better in the flesh. Looks classy& flash without being over the top.

 

Rgds Captain

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

I've been around watching in stealth very busy prior to my upcoming holiday. I thought I had better take the better-half away to work on her tan so I booked us almost 2 weeks in Hawaii. Waikiki Beach (Oahu) and Maui. Qantas of course with Hawaiian Airlines and Mesa-Air for the inter-island transfers. Will check out the localaviation scene when I get there, however I'm not expecting to see too much. Last time I was there in '02 I almost got kicked off Wheeler Airforce Base (as featured in the movie Pearl Harbour) for taking pictures of a Stealth bomber, so hopefully this trip is a little more uneventful. They didn't accept my credentials atfirst when I flashed them, but when I movedup thechain of command a littleI got results and an apology. All good fun. The young PFC was just trying to do his job I guess. (They have combined bases over there if you know for those that know what PFC stands for)

 

I've known a few girls who were classy and flashy and believe me, that's not a bad thing and even better when they are "over the top" as you put it.

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Hi Captain,

 

thanks for the responses regarding the wings. I have not had much time in the past week but thought I should say thanks. You know mother taught me stuff.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Captain]

G'day All,

 

Pics below show flapsbonded onto Stbdwing and preparation to bond to the other, hopefully this arvo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ultralights]

just a little tip, when you cut out the plies of fibreglass, place the cloth mat in between 2 sheets of plastic with the resin, then you can use a squeegee to spread the resin evenly through the glass cloth without getting your hands messy, makes for a more even resin/glass ratio, and then you can draw the outline needed onto the plastic and cut the plies to their exact shape without the cloth shifting as you cut it, also with the pen marks on the plastic, the ink doesn't contaminate the resin.

 

peel off one side of the plastic, place the wet glass in position, and with the other layer of plastic still in place, makes life a lot easier to locate the glass with no mess or loose fibres at the edges.

 

once its all done, peel off the plastic sheet, and replace it with a piece of silk cloth, squash it down into the glass. when it cures, peel off the silk. this will give a matt finish that will require minimal if any sanding.

 

Ultralights

 

 

[Guest micgrace]

Hi

 

Another tip. If need to make complicated shape. Make up a reasonably firm cardboard template and staple the dry glass to it and cut then transfer to plastic for wetting out. No doubt everybody has their pet methods

 

Micgrace :)

 

 

[Captain]

Dear Micky G and Ultra L

 

Thanks for those tips.

 

Withthese flap bracket attachments being structural elements and bearing in mind that the only previous glassingI have done, before this kit, was some surfboard repairs back in the Stompy Wompy days, Ithought it prudentto add each layer of glass as per the J instructions and brush in the resin so that I know every gram that goes in has no air bubbles etc etc.

 

And with these 3 layers of glass needing to be faired in to make a nice job of the underwing area, I know that I can buff it back a tad and make it look nice with the job I have done.

 

Clem B is heading to Hawaii for some sun & seduction and as he was getting ready towing his way NE he sent me a note today saying that one pic looks like I didn't remove the gel-coat. I assured him that wasn't the case. It just looks that way as one corner of one bit of glass wasn't resined in because it was where the aileron plate is to be attached after the final trim of the flap length.

 

For you other builders, these are good jobs as you can see yourself making progress and can see a route to the end of the work .... as opposed to hitting the wall and spinning wheels like I was when mucking about with the cowls.

 

The plan now is to remount the wings this weekend and locate the inner fairing for the flaps. With those fairings on the fuselage, we should be able to complete the fuse and get it final painted, hopefully next week if the big spraybooth in town is not fully booked.

 

Thanks again for your interest and tips fellas.

 

Regards Geoff

 

Captain

 

 

[Ultralights]

Another little tip, actually Boeing procedure on all its airliners fibreglass repairs, if the are needs or uses 3 layers of glass, place a 4th layer over the part, with about 1 inch overlap all round. this is a sacrificial layer, when sanding to get the final finish, the 4th layer will be partially removed, giving a smoother finish, and as its the 4th extra layer being sanded, its leaves the 3 repair or component plies undamaged, making for a stronger join/part/repair , and gives a smoother finish.