Limited and Experimental categories

[IanR]

I have been trying to work out what aircraft registered in limited and experimental categories are actually able to do from a private flying perspective. There are definitions in the CASA rules, but what is the real life reality. Can you basically use them for any private purpose - cross country, etc ? I guess it depends on whats written on the COA. For example is there any real restriction apart from hire/reward on usage of a Yak 18 in Experimental ? or a 52 in Limited ?

 

 

[Yenn]

Experimental is VH registered and they can be used for anything a PPL would normally be able to do, including IFR. That is once their test flight period is finished and in accordance with any restrictions placed on the aircraft, such as daytime omly if lights are not fitted.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Join my club Ian. I was looking at Richard Eastwood's replica Spitfire that is currently for sale ($145K) and wondered how such a plane, with retacts, can fit into any RAA category. I've searched and read all the RAA and CASA docs but I'm buggered if I can make sense of it.

 

 

[REastwood]

The Spitfire is RAA registered "19" which is the RAA experimental category (homebuilt). In both GA and RAA there are many various Experimental rules and limitations and it all depends on the aircraft and it's intended use. On the other hand, most ex-military aircraft will come under the Limited category and can be used under the "Warbird" ruling allowing for warbird flights.

 

The replica Spitfire (Geoff Eastwood's, I only placed the add for him) has the Jabiru 8 cyl engine and is a single seat, plus a stall speed of less than 45knots in landing config. With pilot and 2 odd hours of fuel it comes under the 544kg limit. As it was homebuilt it fits under the "19" reg for RAA, wether it has retractable undercarriage, or anything else makes no difference, as long as it is airworthy and meets the requirements for RAA.

 

Richard.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Thanks Richard, still don't understand how it fits but I'll take your word for it seeing as I know you, Geoff and Ray.(Used to be a non flying member of A.F.C.) If I had the money it would be sold. Lovely aircraft all round. Seen it at Murray Bridge some time back.

 

BTW would a 6ft, 100kg pilot fit in it?

 

 

[IanR]

Experimental is VH registered and they can be used for anything a PPL would normally be able to do, including IFR. That is once their test flight period is finished and in accordance with any restrictions placed on the aircraft, such as daytime omly if lights are not fitted.

Thanks Yenn, Is this for home built or is it the same for all experiemental (eg Yak 18) ?

 

 

[Yenn]

Homebuilt is the RAAus equivalent of GA Experimental and has the weight and stall speed requirements, plus it cannot fly at night, IFR or do aerobatics. It is perfectly suitable for the majority of recreational pilots, but some of us would like the weight to be upped to allow such aircraft as RV's to be included.

 

 

[PapaFox]

An interestig a/c is the Mk26B that featured in Charlie Borman's "By any Means" journey.

 

90% scale, with the V8 motor, flying two up doing aerobatics, with 19-5410 register, on film! Wonder what HQ think of that one!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Slightly off topic, but has the RAA ever pulled someone's licence for aerobatics or other rule breaking?

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

An interestig a/c is the Mk26B that featured in Charlie Borman's "By any Means" journey.90% scale, with the V8 motor, flying two up doing aerobatics, with 19-5410 register, on film! Wonder what HQ think of that one!

How can that be legal under 19-certification...obviously someone in the RAA registration is taking a kick-back or looking the other way or could it be an honest oversight (cough-cough) whats worse of course is that the owner operator would be knowingly breaking the rules and this could have negative consequences for the rest of us down the track...

 

 

[dazza 38]

An interestig a/c is the Mk26B that featured in Charlie Borman's "By any Means" journey.90% scale, with the V8 motor, flying two up doing aerobatics, with 19-5410 register, on film! Wonder what HQ think of that one!

I own a copy of that video, I dont know how they got away with it.Having said that the Pilot is ex RAAFor maybe RAF. Anyway even though the A/c and Pilot are capable, its not in the rules ATM.

 

 

[Yenn]

Having had close contact with a Supermarine Spitfire at Bundy a couple of airshows back, my impression of their pilots is that they don't care about rules, or even general airmanship. I was overtaken while on base leg, not because i wasn't seen but I was just told that he was passing me. Couldn't find anyone to own up when I confronted them at their stand. Gutless wonders.

 

 

[REastwood]

Hi Doug, it was most likely Roger Stokes you saw at Murray Bridge, which is VH registered. I reckon a 6' 100kg pilot would fit in and still have 1 1/2 hours fuel.

 

I think the issue with certain types of aircraft getting into RA-Aus is where the first of a new type or conversion is done and checked and subsequently passed and all is OK. But the tenth one gets in because the first one did, but it is not necessarily the same.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

This is the one I saw at M.B,

 

[ATTACH]13119.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]13120.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]13121.vB[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

This is the one I saw at M.B,[ATTACH=CONFIG]20406[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]20407[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]20408[/ATTACH]

This is the thing, the way I see it.If the replica spitfires can be registered, which by the way are quite within the rules as I see them.If the owner plays by the rules and If they are 90 Kgs and dont take a passenger and only fuel up to the current 544Kg limit, which isnt much at the moment.Every thing is fine.I dont know what the damage has been by videos like "By Anymeans"with the chevy V8, which flew from Watt Bridge to Maryborough via the Glass house mountains .But when i first bought it and my My Missus Kymeille watched it, she pointed it out to me as I was to busy pouring a beer anyway .I was like WTF how can they have that on the video.My missus isnt into flying, but she is a good observer.If she knows it not correct, how many other people know. People always pick on CASA and the RAA but its not rocket science, im sure they have seen this stuff.They have let it go, for what ever reason, im not sure.Maybe they are turning a blind eye for the sake of world piece.lol

 

Actually I shouldnt have quoted the above thread, but I dont want to re-write it.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

That's OK Dazza. I haven't seen the video you're on about but I doubt that all Spit flyers are stupid and arrogant.

 

Yenn, did the Spits manoeuvrings put you in danger?

 

Cheers Richard, I'll have to start thinking seriously, about loosing weight.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Doug, your right, I dont want everybody tarred with the same brush.In a nut Shell, Charlie Borman goes to Mogill where the kits are built.He thinks he is going for a fly in a real Sptifire not a replica,but he tours the factory where the kits and engines are built , the V8 engines are straight from GM, they install the reducion drives etc.Anyway, the weather isnt the best so the night before the flight, so he is driven to Watts, weather clears up. The next morning a Pilot takes him in a 19 registered Spit to MB.He does aeros over the glass house mountains, he stopped doing aeros as soon as Charlie felt sick, he didnt end up getting sick, but was close.They get to MB and everything is sweet. Apart from rules getting broken.