How big is big enough?

[sfGnome]

6 hours ago, rgmwa said:

A Sling 2 is good for 700 kg and would be a nice choice for either weight limit. I've never yet been loaded even to 600kg in the RV-12 on any trip.

What load can you take with full fuel and 2 POB? The Tecnam was limited to about 20kg, which is fine for overnighters, but a bit of a problem for a week-long trip. 

[sfGnome]

4 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

For a much bigger bang for your dollar (Wider speed envelope, from 27 knot Stall -134 knot Cruise, intuitive handling, quiet in/out, comfortable, low low operating cost, 300kg(+/- fit out) empty weight, check out the ATEC Faeta (available as a fast build kit or factory built) -Full disclosure: I am no longer an ATEC company representative. 

This may seem odd, but I’m not looking for quick build. It’s the act of building that I’m looking forward to, even more than the flying (though that’s a pretty good bonus). Having said that, I know my limitations so I’ll be restricting myself to full kits; no plans and raw materials for this little black duck! 😯

[skippydiesel]

46 minutes ago, sfGnome said:

This may seem odd, but I’m not looking for quick build. It’s the act of building that I’m looking forward to, even more than the flying (though that’s a pretty good bonus). Having said that, I know my limitations so I’ll be restricting myself to full kits; no plans and raw materials for this little black duck! 😯

All well & good but if you want to enjoy your creation (as in flight characteristics, comfort & econamy of operation) I would council that you have an eye to what the completed aircraft will be like.

 

Whatever you choose, completion will bring huge satisfaction.

 

Reality check;

 

• Building, even refurbishing, can be an extraordinarily time/attention consuming activity. This will not concern you, if there are no or very few other demands on you eg family/work  or if you can devote many years of small advances in your project.

 

• Many part built projects end up being sold as the builder runs out of enthusiasm or time (deceased estates).

 

Then again if your aim is to be a serial builder then my council is probably  moot.

Edited April 29, 2023 by skippydiesel

[rgmwa]

1 hour ago, sfGnome said:

What load can you take with full fuel and 2 POB? The Tecnam was limited to about 20kg, which is fine for overnighters, but a bit of a problem for a week-long trip. 

My 12 can take 50lb in the baggage compartment. The current 12’s can take 75 lb as the fuel tank has been relocated. My long trips have been solo so the passenger seat has  been available for whatever I wanted to take. 

[RFguy]

If you need space and payload..... and speed... 700kg J230D. hard  to beat in RAaus. 80kg in the back no issue.... 620kg with full fuel (140 ltrs + 2 pax) ...

Centre of Lift of wing is over the "BAGS 1"  so CG is generally always in range and hard to screw up . and you have the huge back door  (that leaks ha ha)  and flies  better with weight behind you, also.  Take a look at other airplanes CG envelopes in various configurations.

Edited April 29, 2023 by RFguy

[skippydiesel]

11 hours ago, rgmwa said:

My 12 can take 50lb in the baggage compartment. The current 12’s can take 75 lb as the fuel tank has been relocated. My long trips have been solo so the passenger seat has  been available for whatever I wanted to take. 

You must be from Perth , USA 🤣.

 

I have no rational explanation for our totally screwed up combination of  aviation metric/imperial measurements BUT we at least all our weights are metric.

 

Rough calculation; An ATEC Faeta (MTO 600kg at the moment) can lift  - 100L of fuel (79kg) 2 crew (80 x 2 = 160kg) your 75lb ( 34kg) and still have about 27 kg in reserve.  Using max continues power setting will travel at 134 knots, for a still air range of 705 Nm (1306 km) to empty tanks.

 

 

[rgmwa]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

You must be from Perth , USA 🤣.

 

I have no rational explanation for our totally screwed up combination of  aviation metric/imperial measurements BUT we at least all our weights are metric.

 

Rough calculation; An ATEC Faeta (MTO 600kg at the moment) can lift  - 100L of fuel (79kg) 2 crew (80 x 2 = 160kg) your 75lb ( 34kg) and still have about 27 kg in reserve.  Using max continues power setting will travel at 134 knots, for a still air range of 705 Nm (1306 km) to empty tanks.

 

 

Ah yes, but it’s not an RV 🙂

[sfGnome]

15 hours ago, skippydiesel said:Reality check;

 

• Building, even refurbishing, can be an extraordinarily time/attention consuming activity. This will not concern you, if there are no or very few other demands on you eg family/work  or if you can devote many years of small advances in your project.
• Many part built projects end up being sold as the builder runs out of enthusiasm or time (deceased estates).

Yep. I’ve built two houses on my own - brickies and plumber the only subbies - so I’m a bit of a sucker for big, long term projects. Last house took 5 years despite me confidently reassuring my beloved that it would take one. Making no promises about this task. 🫣

 

I will admit that the thought of the family having to dispose of a half-built project if I carked it does bother me, but I guess the solution to that problem is to just not die. So far, so good… 😛

[sfGnome]

6 hours ago, RFguy said:

If you need space and payload..... and speed... 700kg J230D. hard  to beat in RAaus. 80kg in the back no issue.... 620kg with full fuel (140 ltrs + 2 pax) ...

Centre of Lift of wing is over the "BAGS 1"  so CG is generally always in range and hard to screw up . and you have the huge back door  (that leaks ha ha)  and flies  better with weight behind you, also.  Take a look at other airplanes CG envelopes in various configurations.

Definitely in the frame, but (ignoring the never ending and unresolvable arguments about Jab engine reliability), haven’t you just bought a new plane because you decided that there was a problem with the attitude of the Jab company? The other thing that concerns me is that Jab specify that it must be run on Avgas. I know that lots of people use ULP98 on them, but what happens of you want to make a warranty claim?

[skippydiesel]

On 30/04/2023 at 1:27 PM, sfGnome said:

Yep. I’ve built two houses on my own - brickies and plumber the only subbies - so I’m a bit of a sucker for big, long term projects. Last house took 5 years despite me confidently reassuring my beloved that it would take one. Making no promises about this task. 🫣

 

I will admit that the thought of the family having to dispose of a half-built project if I carked it does bother me, but I guess the solution to that problem is to just not die. So far, so good… 😛

I can understand the need for a brickie, having "given it a go" several times - looks easy- but a real art/skill to do it right.

 

Why the plumber? Easy! and getting easier with press to fit/secure (never leak in several lifetimes /rats aside) high density polly pipe.  Even in the copper /solder days (still around) no prob! and copper easier than gal (I never had the thread cutting equipment).

 

Don't worry about the 1/2 built project  - For a quick buck (and to get back at you, for not devoting as much time to them) they will sell of the kit for a fraction of its real worth🤣

 

"Live Long And Prosper"

 

 

 

 

[sfGnome]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I can understand the need for a brickie, having "given it a go" several times - looks easy- but a real art/skill to do it right.

 

Why the plumber?

Yep. I had re-do two sets of sill bricks a little while back. In the time it took me, a real brickie could have done the whole side of a house! The plumbing might be not too difficult, but it had to get council approval for the build (back in the day when councils cared about that). 

[johnm]

On 30/04/2023 at 1:27 PM, sfGnome said:

 

I will admit that the thought of the family having to dispose of a half-built project if I carked it does bother me, but I guess the solution to that problem is to just not die. So far, so good… 😛

 

ironically you are our ? potential benefactor sfGnome - you could well enrich this website and one members life with this potential half-built project ! 

[sfGnome]

43 minutes ago, johnm said:

 

ironically you are our ? potential benefactor sfGnome - you could well enrich this website and one members life with this potential half-built project ! 

Ah, but then I won’t be around to advise the readers of my demise… 😯 We’ll try to avoid having to deal with that case.