RAAus Website

[Admin]

This is following on from an existing thread located HERE

 

I will put my on and say that I personally don't believe RAAus should be going for any kind of software that is open source like Drupal, Wordpress, Joomla etc.

 

Why? These apps are ok for you or me to have and for the large entities with IT departments that can manage them but not for the in-between like the RAAus. These apps are ok on their own and only ok if you ONLY want what they individually offer without any addons, manipulation, customising etc. You and me and entities with IT departments can have addons and customise them to our hearts content and when the core product is updated we hope the addons will work, or wait for them to be updated before we can update them and the core software ourselves or find a similar addon if the addon is no longer supported which means we need to remove the old one, install the new one and any data migration that is needed again, ourselves. For the RAAus to do this it WILL cost them money...your money. Also, with open source, sure there are many people out there (unknown individuals?????) who will offer advice on how to fix this or that, how to do this or that...all taking someone's time to manage it, sive through all the communities of advice and suggestions, stay abreast of core changes and what will effect the customisations and keep on top of it. This is what the RAAus does not need, rather it needs a solution with minimal management requirements.

 

My opinion is that RAAus should have gone for a packaged solution from a company that has been around with a product for many years and which satisfies most of their needs all in one single app (if possible with minimal addons), developed by one single company and supported by one single company. Yes, it will cost a small amount like say $300 but they get direct support by ticket systems with the overall software package developer not a community of people where you have no idea if what you are reading is correct in the long term of the product for your entity.

 

The perfect example is this site...it has built in to the core product Forums, Content Management System, Blogs, Photo Gallery etc...a whole publishing suite from a single company that has been around for more years then the open source ones, has hundreds of thousands of sites all around the world using it, has thousands of addons if you want to go that way and a ticket support system with the actual development company. Where this site has become so complex and requirs constant management is the addons of things like the Chat Room, Video Library, an advanced photo gallery, 11 different instances of a Dyna, automated media gathering, separate domains with a single login etc etc etc...even some of the core software files have been modified to suit which in development terms is a no no if you can at all help it.

 

RAAus needs to minimise its costs and management demand...as we say, my 2c worth

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Ian, I agree with what you say about how the site should be managed, but I don't agree with the statement that it can't be done with free software.

 

There are plenty of development companies that specialise in creating and managing sites based on Drupal or WordPress or the like. The level of support and customisation they can do for you is no different from going with a company that creates their own CMS and offers integration/management services. WordPress, for instance, has so many API hooks that there is almost nothing you can't do without touching the core product and the core rarely changes to break plugins. Even with the big 2.x to 3.0 upgrade, most plugins were unaffected, so long as they used the API properly and not queried WP tables themselves, etc.

 

So I think the choice of platform is neither here nor there.

 

What matters, and we both seem to agree on this, is that ongoing support is available; someone needs to be responsible. Preferably, the media and communication person (we don't have) inside RA-Aus. They can figure out what they need and get the external provider to get it done. This can be a larger company, or a smaller one, that doesn't matter, as long as they are good and reliable. Preferably a smaller company or sole trader, IMO; they are more likely to go the extra mile for a smaller account like RA-Aus would be and charge less.

 

And then the nice thing about free software is that if you don't like the company anymore (or they don't like you), you can get someone to take over without any licensing issues.

 

And that's my $0.02 on the subject. :)

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I agree, Bas.

 

RaAus should avoid lock-in. Lock-in is where you lose cost control.

 

WordPress seems to me to be a good choice. It has been around a long time; Is under very active development by the community; Has many fewer security issues than some other choices like Joomla. As you say, there's plenty of small businesses who will build and manage the site and then RaAus just has to worry about content and paying the annual maintenance bill, which should not be exorbitant, provided not too much custom code creeps in. Favour configuration over customisation where possible.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I think Ian said somewhere above the chosen vender was using Drupal. It's a fine and well supported choice. If I had done a tender, it would probably have been WordPress as it is such an easy to use and flexible CMS, certainly not just for blogs anymore!

 

But like I said: that's neither here nor there; you can create a great site with either.

 

Let's hope they do!

 

 

[Admin]

Bass, I also posted yesterday that it is now likely to be Wordpress but moving on...

 

 

[Admin]

I think you may have missed my point...Open Source is good in a lot of situations...Packaged Software is also good in a lot of situations...the way you go isn't a simple answer as just that as web sites, software etc means many different things and depends entirely on the circumstances.

 

Let's take 4 different scenarios...

 

1. You, Me and many other Internet users, it is fun, its a toy, we enjoy it, we have a web site, maybe a blog, browse many different sites, learning and finding out great and interesting things

 

2. A small business in the Information and Communication Technology, providing assistance in ICT to businesses, doing web sites, implementing software, and many other areas in the vast industry

 

3. A small business that has a product or service offered to the public, community, Association etc that uses ICT purely as a tool as their focus is performing the delivery of their product or service to their customers at the minimal of cost to themselves

 

4. A medium/large entity that has the resources to manage that ICT tool whilst they deliver their product or service to their customer base

 

I see that Open Source applications have great value to 1,2 and 4 above BUT with 3 when ICT is used basically as just a tool, they need that tool, like all their other tools, to be not a focus, minimal cost and minimal maintenance...any tool that has high maintenance costs in the form of either internal labour used or external maintenance costs would need some really serious cost benefit done on it to ensure the costs don't out weigh the benefits.

 

A packaged solution, the right packaged solution, that provides everything they need in one box, one single support contact is the best solution providing, again, the cost/benefit analysis supports the desired packaged solution...this allows them to focus on their product/service delivery to their customer base and only pay the extreme minimum in the maintenance of their tools.

 

If again for example the RAAus wanted a CMS system, Blogs and a forum...vBulltin costs for the publishing suite $285...they install it, and use it as a tool...the only maintenance then is a single click when an update is released.

 

If they went for a solution that is Open Source and say 1 product has a CMS system and Blogs and either a forum Addon or another forum product all together then maintenance costs are higher and takes staff away from delivering their product or service to manage the maintenance of it or being performed by a third party

 

You can clearly see that a $285 investment with a single company with a single support ticket system at no cost is by far a better investment. The only time they need to question the use of the tool is if it no longer fit for purpose otherwise they can keep using the tool for years without touching it or at any time they want to upgrade it with a single click as all the products are integrated together from one supplier.

 

We see so often in the IT Industry entities that are continually trying to unify all their systems, single logins etc as it puts less burden on the IT department which, outside of the IT industry, always considered as a Cost Center, not a Profit Center. Once you include your very first Addon then your whole Business Rules and Processes change dramatically and again that needs to be very carefully thought out in terms of its implications of cost/benefit.

 

It comes down to horses for courses and business use of software, web sites and in fact the whole ICT needs to be considered from a business perspective with business rigour applied and not WOW this looks nice or WOW see what this can do...does this make it more clearer of where I am coming from

 

 

[fly_tornado]

What i would like to see on the site would be a list of airports with details on the fuel, hire cars, public transport and food availability. One day, I am going to want to go x-country!

 

 

[Admin]

That is coming back to this site if that helps

 

 

[Admin]

Ignition, I have never said a blanket statement of "open source CMS's are bad" so can you point me to where I have said that...I have however said that Open Source is good in many situations and packaged software is good in other situations.

 

The base core of this site cost $285 which is for version 4 and version 5 will probably be in about 4 to 5 years and then it will be a decision of fit for purpose whether I spend that again at that time or keep version 4 going for 1, 2, 3... years more but if i upgrade in 5 years time the core is costing $57 a year (software and support cost only...just over $1 a week)...all the addons, hosting, domains etc (where all the work is) are a different story.

 

PS, I may even dump this software altogether and use something else that is more fit for purpose which includes delivering what the users want whilst being the easiest for me to manage...and I can tell you this now, this site will probably not be staying with this software for another 5 years

 

 

[Admin]

Also case in point...remember a few years ago we had a Classifieds addon...the guy that made that just shut up shop and all the users of it dwindled away as well, forcing me find a new Classifieds system...likewise for the Airfields section, the developer of that won't upgrade it to suit the core version 4 system...many users started helping each other out with problems, enhancements etc and that also has dwindled away to the point that no one uses it now and I will have to spend at least a week of coding to adapt it to version 4...in these cases it would cost the RAAus thousands of dollars if it were to happen to them but for you or me it isn't a problem

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I know what you are trying to say about tools, Ian; if I had to equip an office right now and wanted people to work, I'd buy a bunch of Macs and be done with it; I wouldn't bother with Linux, too much hassle.

 

But have worked with (and for!) many different CMS vendors, I just don't share your views on the free solutions available. In fact, quite the opposite; I have much more faith that a WordPress solution will be extended, upgraded and migrated much more easily and at lower cost for a longer time than any currently available closed solution.

 

To me, WordPress has evolved to the point where it is a tool you can just use. I created http://www.ozrunways.com/ in pretty much an afternoon and it looks nothing like a blog. (Except for the bit that is!) And if you want something special, the template language is great; few people would realise that the entire http://www.wired.com/ website is really just a WordPress "blog".

 

Another reason that RA-Aus should use free, open solutions is that it very much aligns with the spirit of the organisation. I am surprised that EAA keeps sticking to Microsoft solutions when that is so opposite of all they seem to stand for...

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I have to agree with Bas. One of the WordPress websites I manage is for a small business who are not computer technical but just need to run their business. They thought they could not afford a web site until they met me.

 

Cost is minimised because they can publish all the material, stories, product offers etc without paying me to do it. I just manage the domain name registration, hosting and software updates for a modest annual fee. I am their single point of contact if anything goes wrong or they need help. Setup cost them half what they had been previously quoted and I don't employ "cookie cutter" techniques.

 

Best of all, their customers are asking to buy because they found them on the web or saw a product on the site, so it isn't just me who thinks it is a business advantage adding bottom line value.

 

In another scenario (not a web site) I'm looking to migrate data to an Open Source system after the company supplying the packaged software have dropped their previous product and replaced it with another (by buying another company) for the third time in seven years. This case is enterprise software from IBM for which per user licenses and annual maintenance have been paid. If you are careful and select an Open Source product carefully, this sort of migration is much less frequent.

 

Believe it or not, you often get better free community support too, than paid corporate support. Has anyone tried to get Microsoft to fix a bug? This problem seems to apply to many big proprietary software suppliers.

 

 

[Admin]

[No message]

 

 

[fly_tornado]

vbulletin is a forum/bbs where as drupal is a publishing platform. its not really a fair comparison. overall the main issue with the new website is the strategy and goals not the implementation. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Forgive me butting in guys, but if the Board has already decided on the $13000 package, what's the use of this discussion?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Development of the RAA website is an ongoing process. now, this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I must be having a seniors moment. F-T, are you implying that we pay someone $13000 to create a site, then we modify it to suit our needs? If so, it is indeed $13000 wasted.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Senior moment, yes. :)

 

We have a new magazine with new information every month, does that mean last month's magazine was wasted money?

 

Good thing is, updates don't cost $13k each time. In fact, they should cost nothing but the time of the staff member or volunteer making the update.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Bass, now I'm completely confused. I thought this thread was about the magazine structure(ie software used etc) and publication, not it's content.

 

Perhaps, like the majority of our readers, I'll stay out of it.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Bass, now I'm completely confused. I thought this thread was about the magazine structure(ie software used etc) and publication, not it's content.

That's exactly what it is about. But it is only a start; nobody is going to throw away what is being created now (I hope that won't be needed, anyway!) it will just be built upon. If this first site doesn't do nice classifieds, it can be added on later, etc.

The technology chosen, while not everyone's favourite here, is more than capable of allowing that.