jon Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Interested in starting a kit. Looked at Searey - too expensive over here in spite of $ parity - very neat tho. Brumby - great little Aussie machine - a lot of real 'building' to do Cheetah Sierra 100 - seems a good little performer on similar HP engines. There do not seem to be many threads relating to these kit builds. Any reasons for that? Cheers all.
dazza 38 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The Cheetah and Brumby are both great Australian Products. IMHO
jon Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Right! Never heard of the Tornado SS as a combined statement. Will look into it. The reasons why I plumped for the Sierra rather than Garry's other children were I guess the speed, removeable wings, all metal covering (apart from a few bits if 'glass). Yes I like the the all Aussie origins of the Brumby and the Aeroworks craft. The Searey BTW is an amphibian reminiscent of the Catalina which has always fascinated me after the stories written by Sir PG Taylor involving this iconic aircraft in the Pacific. Engines? I have been most taken by the (uncertified) Lycoming 0-235 100HP rather than entering into that 'other' tussle that Guernsey alludes to. Looking for? I am trying to avoid a hangar as I have a barn - but no easy access to a strip - so the folding or removeable wing is of interest. Good visibility, roomy but enclosed cockpit 'cos I ain't tiny, efficiency and fun (that is the Searey for sure but it is expensive), challenging to build but logical. Thanks for your comments. Cheers John
denmit Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Sounds like an Vans RV-12 to me. http://www.vansaircraft.com
fly_tornado Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Tornado is about 300 hours to build... that means you will be flying a few months earlier than the RV12 pilot.
jon Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks for the responses from fly_tornado and denmit. Have now had a bit of a gander at both websites. The Tornado ss is maybe a trifle too light for long trips (say Vic to WA) from my point of view. The RV12 is from the USA obviously and the pricing is a bit hard to pin down so far. Costs to get it here are to be added of course. I am now wondering how it compares against the Sierra 100 in the value for money columns and the access to manufacturer and parts? This is getting harder as it goes along - but very interesting! Thanks again for your advices.
rgmwa Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks for the responses from fly_tornado and denmit.Have now had a bit of a gander at both websites. The Tornado ss is maybe a trifle too light for long trips (say Vic to WA) from my point of view. The RV12 is from the USA obviously and the pricing is a bit hard to pin down so far. Costs to get it here are to be added of course. I am now wondering how it compares against the Sierra 100 in the value for money columns and the access to manufacturer and parts? This is getting harder as it goes along - but very interesting! Thanks again for your advices. Can't comment on the Sierra, but access to Vans and their builder support is excellent. The VAF website also provides great support from other builders, and Vans are very responsive and well organised. They have been in the business a long time and are used to dealing with overseas clients. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=73 You will find a pricelist for the RV12 on Vans website. Allow roughly 15% extra for GST and freight costs. With the high dollar, now is a good time to buy. rgmwa
jon Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks rgmwa, I will keep digging! You have built the RV12 you fly? The pricelist only allows for the 912s donk and not a Lycoming option so maybe it isn't an option. With a 100hp engine the RV12 appears from the performance tables to cruise at 100kts @ 75% power. The Sierra somehow betters that with the same power by 10+ kts (as yet unconfirmed). Possibly due to a better power:weight ratio or lower drag coefficient. This however translates into more fuel efficiency = lower operating costs. jon
fly_tornado Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 The Tornado SS is a lightweight plane, designed to be a quick simple build, it really is just building the back part of the wing, skinning the fuselage and assembling the components. Have a look @ the masses of unfinished projects http://www.barnstormers.com/Projects+Only%20Classifieds.html?page=1
jon Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Hi Fly I would hate to end up on that website. I take your point however about biting off more than you can chew. Cheers Jon
fly_tornado Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Dragging yourself out to the shed for 900 hours is a big commitment, especially if you haven't ever done it before. I opted to buy a used plane and spend sometime upgrading it, even that has ended up as a major learning experience working out how a plane goes together.
jon Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Savvy like that makes you a Wing Commander and me a Pilot Cadet eh!
fly_tornado Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 yu make wing commander after 100 posts... I find dragging myself out to the shed every night sucks and I only manage 1 night a week at best. Its a lot easier working on stuff in the daytime which kind of spoils your weekends but thats the price you pay to own a homebuilt.
rgmwa Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks rgmwa,I will keep digging! You have built the RV12 you fly? The pricelist only allows for the 912s donk and not a Lycoming option so maybe it isn't an option. With a 100hp engine the RV12 appears from the performance tables to cruise at 100kts @ 75% power. The Sierra somehow betters that with the same power by 10+ kts (as yet unconfirmed). Possibly due to a better power:weight ratio or lower drag coefficient. This however translates into more fuel efficiency = lower operating costs. jon I'm currently building one, but still some time off flying. The RV-12 is designed around the Rotax 912ULS, although a Jabiru distributer in the US is currently trialing a Jab 2200 installation, which should be flying in the next few weeks. Real world performance reported by US builders for aircraft fitted with wheel fairings is for cruise speeds around 110-115kt. rgmwa
VHRV12 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Dragging yourself out to the shed for 900 hours is a big commitment, especially if you haven't ever done it before. I opted to buy a used plane and spend sometime upgrading it, even that has ended up as a major learning experience working out how a plane goes together. If you need to "drag yourself out to the shed", you are probably building the wrong kit!! Building an RV12 is so much fun, I just can't "drag myself away from it"!!!...even though I work on aircraft for a living!!!
Guernsey Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Hi Jon, if the length of time to build a kit is a little bit daunting, then why not consider having part of a Morgan Sierra factory built and you do the rest. I would suggest you get Gary Morgan to build the harder more time consuming parts and you do the easy parts. All the best with whatever aircraft you decide on and welcome to this forum. Alan.
facthunter Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 If the Morgan planes never fail to disappoint, they would disappoint on all occasions. Surely this is not what you want to convey? Nev 1
kgwilson Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I am about to start the build of a Sierra 100. Garry says the quick build kit can be done in as little as 400 hours. I am sure it will be more like 800 hours as discussed with a number of other builders. The Sierra is easy to fly and is a high performance aircraft especially with the 3300 Jab powerplant. 130 - 135 knots cruise at 75% power at MTOW is genuine and it is extremely strong (certified to 7.5g) with a 20+g fuselage. It is no STOL machine even with its very good low speed capability and stall of 37 kts clean & 32 kts with flap. More like a mini mustang. The decision to buy/build is more about you. There are plenty of very good boring aircraft out there. Like buying a car. The standard family saloon will get you there in comfort at a reasonable cost but an Mx 5 or Z4 etc will do the same with a great deal more excitement and leave you grinning from ear to ear every time.
pylon500 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 The MX5 or Z4 may get you there a bit quicker and maybe a bit more fun, but the saloon will take all your gear as well! Ever been on a long trip in a small sports car? If you like the new Lycoming, why not have a look at the Morgan Cougar, speed and space, and a bit cheaper than the Brumby or Lightwing Speed. Want to make it interesting? Ask for the tail wheel version.....
jon Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Still waiting to sell a property before placing an order or look any closer at anything. I think I have now pretty well decided on the RV-12 though complete with wheel pants. Seems a well thought out little plane and looks like great fun to build. Cheers Jon
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