Carbon Monoxide

[Old Koreelah]

Taking the advice of dunlopdangler

 

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...Obroforweb.pdf

 

"a timely thing to remind us all of this danger. As recreational flyers get the nod to fly up to 10,000ft, and we are approaching that cold time of the year, we should be all reminded of the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning from poorly maintained/faulty heating systems and also hypoxaemia.

 

For those that pursue the habit of smoking, hypoxia can start having an affect on the body as low as 6,000ft depending on the individual. There was a case (again in America) where a well known (heavy smoking) actor who was flying his twin ended up making an emergency landing on a highway."

 

This danger applies on the ground as well. We in the VRA see some inexplicable road crashes; CO may be a more common factor than we realise. The worst was the bloke who drove his van through the night with his family sleeping behind him. To stay awake he apparently had air blowing on his face, but on arrival several of the family were deceased; CO from a leaking exhaust pipe.

 

Those little CO colour-change cards are a waste of time- they don't last long, and one of the first effects of CO poisoning is loss of colour vision... Good quality digital CO monitors are available; mine has paid for itself.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Thanks for the interesting info.

 

There's a push in Victoria to get people to get their gas appliances checked after a tragic death of two young children in a house in Shepparton last year due to a faulty gas heater and resulting CO build-up. The government is even talking about compulsory CO detectors now as well as smoke detectors.

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

John went to Skyline yesterday to get a couple of these cards there were two sorts (both out of stock) a 3 month & a 6 month one. They told him the 6 month one was deleted as they are going to make them all 3 month ones. He to was going to get one for the van & one for the plane

 

 

[Admin]

Perhaps the ones in the Recreational Flying shop are better as they are 18month ones:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/shop/carbon-monoxide-detectors.htm

 

PS...also have a couple of the electronic ones that never run out (except for the watch battery) and also have a loud audible alarm in stockl

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

A CO detector should probably take it's place on the instrument panel..

 

 

[jetjr]

Look seriously at these electronic ones. They are small and work well.

 

The coloured card only change at really high levels, and thats if you notice them

 

Batteries in mine just started to run low, thats more like 18mths - 100hrs + use

 

 

[eightyknots]

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I was just wondering: is it possible to wire these into the aircraft's electrical supply rather than rely on batteries?

 

 

[Admin]

These are the ones I have and they are around $150-$160...have to check the costings and freight:

 

http://www.detectcarbonmonoxide.com/index.html

 

PS...they are $159.95 which includes shipping to you...only have one left now until next order arrives

 

 

[jetjr]

They are tiny, designed to be like a keyring, or clip onto your shirt, mine is velcro to AC roof. Run on 3V so not really sure they justify hard wiring.

 

When the battery is low it alarms and shows "low bat". Runs fine for many hours after that.

 

After you turn them on they run for 12 hrs then self turn off, as I said mine has done over 100 hrs flying and I rarely remember to turn it off.

 

They do a self test each time you start them and also have alarms for low level/long period exposure which can be just as dangerous. aA small screen says current CO being detected.

 

Mine has picked up leaky exhaust gasket, only significant CO reading was during taxi.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a very good idea to have a warning device. CO can get in anywhere and could even enter down at the back of the aircraft. When an aircraft is moving through the air the cabin ends up being below ambient air pressure, so gases can enter from any hole and most aircraft have plenty of them. Your blood loses it's ability to carry oxygen to your brain, and you just go to sleep (for ever). The older VW Kombi vans were notorious because the heater picked up CO when there was a fault in the heater which obtained its heat from the exhaust system (just as most light aircraft do). A leaking flange gasket or broken spring holding the exhaust system together can be enough. Nev

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I was just wondering: is it possible to wire these into the aircraft's electrical supply rather than rely on batteries?

Mine plugs into my spare cigarette lighter socket. Picked it up at Bundy.

You can see it here:

 

[ATTACH]13442.vB[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I was just wondering: is it possible to wire these into the aircraft's electrical supply rather than rely on batteries?

 

80kt- electronic detectors use so little juice and there are advantages in not wiring them into the a/c power system.

 

I fitted a domestic unit, which has run continuously for well over a year on a 9v battery.

 

Our blood has an amazing affinity for Carbon Monixide; I have been told that it will absorb up to 400 times more CO than Oxygen, so if there is any CO in the air it gets absorbed quickly.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Here's an interesting article about a (very fortunate) pilot who had NO carbon monoxide detector. The source is http://www.pilotfriend.com/aeromed/medical/uncon_landing.htm:

 

AVIATION MEDICINE

 

An unconscious landing

 

Plane Lands Itself in Hayfield as Pilot Slumbers

 

By Douglas R. Burnett

 

Pilots love to describe their great landings, some of which are characterized (usually by others) as "unconscious." However, to land while being unconscious, yet able to describe it is an entirely different matter. Ordinarily, a pilot's in-flight incapacitation brings about tragic consequences.

 

On the afternoon of March 1, 1999, we were enjoying an exceptionally good Basic AME (aviation medical examiner) seminar. Dr. Allen Parmet, presenting aviation physiology (as always, on Monday afternoon), had started to tell the remarkable story of a pilot who lost consciousness while flying alone and woke up in a hay field. Before Dr. Parmet could finish, a voice from the back of the room exclaimed, "I was that pilot!"

 

Dr. Robert Frayser, from Hoisington, Kan., attending his first AME seminar, took over telling this incredible, real-life incident that had happened to him just over a year ago in central Missouri. He had left his home airport at 7 am enroute for Topeka, Kan. "I was flying alone in my Comanche 400, cruising at 5,500 feet on autopilot, with the sun coming up on a clear, beautiful day." All was routine flying activity as he switched the fuel selector to the auxiliary tank and set up the navigation system for his destination.

 

After that, it was anything but routine. "Then, I lost about an hour and a half of my life." The plane, trimmed for cruise flight and on autopilot, flew a perfectly straight course over Kansas until it ran out of fuel and glided to a landing near Cairo, Mo. When he awoke, confused, disoriented, and groggy from a deep sleep, he thought he was still in the air and went through landing preparations. As he became more oriented to his surroundings, he realized that he was now on the ground, in a hayfield. The engine was silent. The airplane's right wing was nearly torn off from an impact with a small tree, but the plane was otherwise intact. Aside from some minor cuts and bruises, he seemed to be relatively uninjured. Frayser says he had no memory of landing.

 

Frayser stated that there were no early warnings or symptoms to alert him. "I just went to sleep." Since the engine had stopped, no one heard the aircraft as it landed on the open field. "I was alone, disoriented, injured, and had a severe headache and ringing in my ears," he said.

 

Extracting himself from the aircraft, he struggled a quarter of a mile through snow-covered fields for help, finally finding a farmhouse. Still dazed, he says, "I tried to explain to the farmer what had happened," adding, "he probably thought I was crazy." Fortunately, the farmer called for help. Frayser was taken by ambulance to a local hospital, where the emergency room physician put him on 100 percent oxygen. He had a few cuts and bruises, sore ribs, and a fractured left wrist.

 

 

 

 

 

What had caused him to fall asleep? It wasn't an "alien encounter" or a mystery. It was carbon monoxide poisoning from a cracked manifold that had allowed the deadly, odourless gas to seep into the cabin through the heater. The crack, which had apparently opened after the last annual inspection, was concealed by the heat shield and could not be detected during the pre-flight inspection. "The crack could have been there for a long time, just waiting for someone to turn on the heater," he said.

 

Frayser did not have a carbon monoxide detector aboard to alert him.

 

Was it luck that he survived? Of course, luck had a lot to do with it. Just a few feet shorter and his "runway" would have been a ploughed field. Had his glide angle been a little lower, he would have hit power lines. A slight wind gust could have changed the outcome dramatically. Another 30 minutes in the air and he probably would have succumbed to carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

However, two things he did correctly probably saved his life. First, he had good equipment that kept the plane stabile until it landed. Second, Frayser says he had quit smoking six months earlier; that factor gave him a probable life-saving margin of an additional 8 percent on his oxygen-haemoglobin dissociation curve. His carboxyhaemoglobin level was estimated at 44 percent when he exited the plane (50 percent is usually considered lethal), and it was still at 36 percent when he arrived at the hospital.

 

The Piper Comanche, which Frayser says was "very special" to him, was removed from the field on a flat-bed truck and taken to an aircraft salvage yard. After the accident, 20 aircraft from the same airfield were inspected and three were found to have cracked manifolds—and only two had CO detectors.

 

Frayser says he now has a new Comanche 400, identical to the old one, "except it is blue instead of red—and, I now fly with a good carbon monoxide detector in the cockpit."

 

 

 

 

NEW AIRPLANE. Dr. Frayser (middle) with replacement Piper Comanche 440 and Matt Greel (left) and Don Brooks of Century Flight Systems. New aircraft does have a CO detector.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Donald]

Taking the advice of dunlopdanglerhttp://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pil...Obroforweb.pdf

"a timely thing to remind us all of this danger. As recreational flyers get the nod to fly up to 10,000ft, and we are approaching that cold time of the year, we should be all reminded of the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning from poorly maintained/faulty heating systems and also hypoxaemia.

 

For those that pursue the habit of smoking, hypoxia can start having an affect on the body as low as 6,000ft depending on the individual. There was a case (again in America) where a well known (heavy smoking) actor who was flying his twin ended up making an emergency landing on a highway."

 

This danger applies on the ground as well. We in the VRA see some inexplicable road crashes; CO may be a more common factor than we realise. The worst was the bloke who drove his van through the night with his family sleeping behind him. To stay awake he apparently had air blowing on his face, but on arrival several of the family were deceased; CO from a leaking exhaust pipe.

 

Those little CO colour-change cards are a waste of time- they don't last long, and one of the first effects of CO poisoning is loss of colour vision... Good quality digital CO monitors are available; mine has paid for itself.

Hiya guy's yep the cards are a waste of time as when they change it is toooo late they react at 300 ppm, i have an electric unit which is self powered and goes off at 30ppm , which has gone off when taxing behind other aircraft that are running if my vents are open,scares the crap out of you but they work great gives you plenty of time to descend from altitude and land b4 you are affected adversely.