The Gazelle

[Guest Guest]

Congrats on the site, i to fly a gazelle, and agree with you that it handles very well in all conditions. the only problem i have is that im 197cm tall, and the gazelle is a bit of a squeeze. Other then that its a joy to fly.

 

 

[Ed Herring]

Hi Ian and Group

 

We have a Gazelle in our flying school that is an absolute delight. The problem we have is that we tend to beat each other up in the scramble to fly her. We always try to convince one another that it is our turn to fly her. I have heard a rumour that they are now manufactured in another country. Does anyone know if this is true. Or alternativley can any one tell me the story behind why they are not around? Such a popular and good aircraft should have survived.

 

Regards

 

Ed

 

 

[TechMan]

Hi Ed,

 

The Skyfox is not manufactured overseas I don't believe, though it's (pretty much) identical twin, the Eurofox is being produced overseas.

 

The US website for it: http://www.eurofox-usa.com/

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

 

[Guest Guest]

I have spent all of my 86 hours flying Skyfox and Gazelles, and only in the one fantastic training area, These aircraft and agile, forgiving, responsive and most of all fun, I can not wait till I can afford to do my Nav training and I know one day I will own one of these shining examples of the Recreational Aviation Movement. Thanks for the site and the forum.

 

Timbo

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

wondering if there is any connection between the skyfox and kitfox. one factory and one kit or something??

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

On my understanding (which is a bit limited in this area) I believe it started with the Amercian Kit Fox - several of which were built in Oz.

 

SkyFox Aviation started up and built a re-designed KitFox and sold it as the SkyFox.

 

This turned out to be a full blooded traildragger and was a 'bit marginal' in terms of it's rather narrow undercarriage track and high centre of gravity without good quality taildragger training! This model however was available for the VH register and school use.

 

At the price this was a good market. I heard first hand from a guy that had started with SkyFox from day one that EVERY Skyfox supplied to a GA school had been pranged!

 

That particular type did (in my estimation) virtually single handedly root ultralight insurance. They were cheap by GA standards but expensive by ours. Unfortunately it seems that the GA experience got lumbered on AUF (and we were having enough prangs with them as it was!).

 

The SkyFox was therefore put on 'training wheels' in tricycle configuration and termed the Gazelle.

 

I have flown both Skyfox and Gazelles (the latter I find a bit bland for my tastes) and had no problems with either. Others evidently have - and it is not the aircraft particularly, it is the pilots and therefore the quality of training that went into forming those pilots!

 

There is still some residual confusion on naming. The manufacturer was called SkyFox and their first main type was called the SkyFox. When the Gazelle came out it was called the SkyFox Gazelle. So subsequently it is often referred to as the SkyFox.

 

To add to the confusion a Skyfox was converted to nosewheel configuration. I believe there was only one and it operates from Caloundra.

 

Since then apparently the 'EuroFox' has started manufacture in Europe. I did apply some effort to help start a SkyFox support group but to no avail! Such a group is sorely needed both in terms of passing on operating information and mainly airworthiness stuff as the types have a limited life wing and have had some serious airframe problems.

 

Daffyd Llewllyn fielded a project for a redesigned wing structure that I believe was unlimited fatigue life - but again there was not enough support.

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest micgrace]

Hi guys,

 

Idid someinitial GA training in the Gazelle very soon after released. I found it a great little aircraft to fly.

 

The only complaint I had (it was fitted with a 912) was two up it was not possible to hold the nose level at steep bank, due to insuffient power. other than that gripe no complaints.

 

By the way VERY easy for takeoff/landing.

 

Micgrace :)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i have been reading of late how the Kitfox people had just gone under in the states. and thought that it may have affected the aircraft here, with so many lables sktfox kitfox eurofox it all seemed a bit confusing. i like this style of aircraft, shame so many people can't handle the tailwheel configeration.(they probably drive automatic cars to) i see a gazzelle fly out of the strip and even with single pilot on board i find the intial rate of climb a bit isapointing with the 912. i've never seen it fly with 2 on board. is this a trait of the gazelle or just the operator.?

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

I would not think the USA demise has any bearing on Australia Ozzie as the Skyfox factory closed several years ago in the middle of trying to sell out to India (or something).

 

It just means there is now very little support left for the types unless an owner run support group gets going.

 

There was some muttering about Type Certificate holding if a support group did get up and go - legal issues etc! But I never had any problem with the Thrusters despite the UK factory being in full production and the Australian factory still being at least technically open. After all you are only sharing information and parts sourcing - not manufacturing or anything.

 

 

[barandbrew]

Hi

 

The talk on climb performance reminds me when I was doing my training in the Gazelle.All my previous flying experience was in gliders so the noisy vibration up front took some getting used to. The woodern prop on the aeroplane always used to concern me as it always had cracks on the tips that were glued and reglued when I voiced my concerns to the school owner he assured me that all was in order and this was the norm with wooden props but I still felt uneasy..

 

The Gazelle had climb performance simular to what has been previously mentioned around 200-250 fpm loaded with two people in summer and not much better in winter. However when the prop was replaced with a carbon prop ( not legal I know, the school does not exist now ) the climb rate increased to round 600 fpm on simular days, says something for carbon props I think.

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

[barandbrew]

Tony

 

You mentioned you tried to start a support group what would be involved??

 

Surley with the No. of aircraft in Auz enough support could be mustered. Life limits on wings is 4000 hrs ,most Skyfox airframes would have less than 2000 hrs so an average Skyfox would have many many years of servicable life left before limits would be a concern. Probably why the metal wing option wasn't taken up.

 

My Gazelle has 1780 hrs on airframe due mainly to its on-line life before I purchased it. My son and I fly around 100 hrs per year in the Gazelle at that rate another 20 years will go by before life limits are a concern however I can see great benifets in a support group for Skyfox/Gazelle owners. Your comments please.

 

John

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Hi,

 

I did not try to start the group - I only encouraged it and said I would give all the help I could based on my experience of starting and running TOSG.

 

Carl Nilsson was all for it and would be the best person to comment on how the first attempt went - or why it did not go.

 

As for what is involved - Angela is currently running a two part series of mine in Pacific Flyer at the moment. This is based on TOSG experience but is also generic. Have a read.

 

I would be happy to answer specific questions here if any are put.

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest Guest]

hey just started to look into getting into the ultralight business. been in the glider business and seen as though i'm in an area that doesn't have gliders near by (i'm an aircraft tech in the airforce working on hornets near Katherine). as ultralights are my second choice i thought i'd start looking into it. it is great to see a familiar name (Tony Hayes) from my gliding past through watts bridge. i'm very interested in the skyfox as i got to fly one back in Caboolture when i was gliding. would love to buy one in the near futurre but need to know more bout them before doing the final deed any feedback is much appreciated.

 

Brendan (Marshy) Marshall

 

 

[barandbrew]

Hi Brendon

 

I came from the gliding scene myself and now own a Gazelle and a Sapphire.

 

I find the Gazelle a great little aeroplane to fly very easy to handle but still has good light responce on the controls.

 

If you don't want to fly lots of X-country and just want to enjoy the flying I think its a good choice. I havn't flown the taildrager version but apart from the obvious undercariage difference they should handle the same.

 

REgards

 

John

 

 

[Guest Paul v M]

HI John, Funny you should say that.

 

I am new to the group and own and fly a CA21 the original taildrager fitted with an Aeropower. I have never flown a Gazell but always expected it would handle like the Skyfox once off the ground. I recently spoke in length to a Gazell pilot and it seems this is not the case at all. Although similar in looks the controls are quite different in operation I believe the Gazell was tamed down greatly from the original aircraft. Has anyone had first hand experience of both aircraft.

 

 

[barandbrew]

Hi Guys

 

Just came back from a week gliding at Lake Keepit.

 

Got re-endorsed on winch/aerotow and single seaters.

 

If you think the Gazelle is short on space try fitting 100 kgs into a LS7 single seater, even with a shoehorn I just fitted in.

 

However I can highly recommend gliding to all RAA pilots the skill of balancing a glider in flight will surley make you a better power pilot and with every landingbeing a forced landing judging power out approaches will be much easier.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Stkin0]

i've never tried gliding, i think i will in the near furtur

 

hope you enjoyed flying at lake keepit the veiw must of been great!

 

 

[rick-p]

Tony, on the subject of a SkyFox support group i did myself try to start one years ago when the Type Certificate was sold to overseas interests.CASA was even interested in helping. Something like the Vic. Air Tourer. Unfortunately the then legislation did not provide for CASA to be able to take the type cert. away from the new Arab owners. Many letters and phone calls and $'s later I was still nowhere. I was confronted by by stone walls every which way I turned. There is a real need for a better understanding of all the SkyFox family be it theCA21, CA22 or CA25. every owner needs to know the aircrafts exact limitations because if flown within the same it is a completely safe and fun aircraft to fly but if you stray outside the now better knowndesign limitations of the aircraft it will, not may, it will bite you big time.Tony, you are 100% correct when you say that the main reason for so many bingles in them was as a result of poor instruction on type. I have flown many hours in a CA21 without incident whereas my soul mate in aviation died as a result of a catastrophic airframe failure in his CA22, he had in excess of 1000hrs on type and was a giffted pilot and instructor.All, be aware and wise, in rough air throttle back to between 65ktsand 70kts, no more andthis will allow a sufficient safety margin in the event of you getting caught by the big hit.I hope that this informationis of use and is treated as fact not fiction, regards, RICK P.

 

 

[barandbrew]

Rick good points

 

However the skyfox is no different to any other aeroplane on the RAA registor . If you fly outside the certified limits you are risking your neck.

 

The skyfox is no more prone to failure than any other if you fly outside the design limits.

 

Have a look at the number of hours that most Gazelles have safely flown and in general it will far more than most, a good sign I think.

 

John

 

 

[rick-p]

Yes John that's true but with the CA21, CA22 & CA25 there was a variance in airspeed between each aircraft due to the way they were rigged. Certain of the CA21's & 22's varried greatly such as my CA21 cruise is about 65 to 70kts whereas the CA22 I learnt to fly in (same motor in each case) cruise was between 80kts and 85kts really leaving no room for error ( as it was proved) in the design limitations. I will agree that there were some improvements with the Gazelle but it is still the same design based on European calculations and not taking into account the turbulence we can experiance here in Australia which such in the case of the SkyFox can cause it to exceed the design limits very quickly (VNE) at times which such in fact did occur in a particular incident. Great aeroplane a hoot of fun and if you can fly a CA21 or CA22 you can fly anything but always be ever aware of your speed and climatic conditions, just back off when in doubt.

 

Kndest regards,

 

RICK P