Feedback on NatFly

[bushpilot]

Shell has advised that the usual oil (sorry cant recall) should not be used anymore as due to the small amount of oil in the Jab engine, it becomes contaminated with lead very quickly when using Avgas.

Scotty:coffee:

Q to anyone that was there - I had to leave half way through: The 'usual' oil is Shell Huile Aviation 20w-50w. Did Keith mention an alternative?

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I know in this day and age there need to be working with kids considerations and probably a minimum age of 8 or something as you dont want it as a child care session!

There were a lot of kids and teens, and something that RA-Aus hasn't thought about yet is gearing up their activities for younger flyers (and flyers-to-be). Kids need to be entertained at NatFly, and I think gaming should be on the list next year - the latest flight sims would be a great drawcard.

And more TIFs are needed from the trade displays - these should be the "pony rides" of the 21st century. The buzz that a kid would get from a flight would make their Easter worthwhile.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Hi Blackrod....,,.isn't that a Morgan Sierra with no wheels???

 

Is that what they mean when they say "We'll give you 10% off"

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hi Dave...yes your on the right track for sure. I was having lunch with my good wife and chatting about this aspect of it. She is a child Psych so has a bit to do with kids and entertainment. The kids were really left out I felt this year. She suggested jumping castles for the little ones and face painting in plane themes etc. My wife is not into the plane scene at all so she has never chosen to be a part of it as its painful for her. She said if it was more family friendly she would consider coming down and being a part of it. I know you cant please or provide for everyone so you will only end up being disillusioned if you do. You know the saying"Cant please everyone all the time".

 

Your suggestion of a flight sim is fantastic and way over and above what I was thinking. You look at what the EAA does with kids and other organisations in the USA. With out trying to offend anyone here but if you stopped and had a look at the average age of the NATFLY attendees, it was quite obvious that in say 20 years we are going to have a shortage of members! It would be fantastic to harness the knowledge and life experiences of these mature members and pass this on to the younger generation before its too late. Im knocking on the 40's door and love nothing more than listening to flying stories from years passed.

 

Last year a good friend who is a member on this forum took Jack who was 10 at that time up for a half hour flight in his Jabiru. To this day Jack still talks about it and it has cemented his love of flying. If I had a dollar for every time he has told someone he flew a Jabiru, I would be able to afford a new Carbon Cub!

 

Am I correct in saying next year is the third year that NATFLY has been allocated to Temora and if it is to remain there, which I believe it should as it is a fantastic facility, something needs to be pulled out of the hat. Reflecting on the weekend since coming home it is even more obvious that organisations were lacking at the trade stalls. I dont recall seeing a SAAA stall this year. RAA was there but poorly represented even compared to last year with the all the merchandise they had. These organisations are where we will grow from and I cant believe there wasnt a site there from SAAA. I feel we should be pushing the more affordable side of flying out there like the Drifters and Thrusters. Once folk are hooked on that they will progress to the plastic fantastic as money allows. What I saw on display there is not in the young family man/woman reach.

 

A fabulous root system is there with the Temora facility, we just need to grow it now.

 

Scotty

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Scotty,

 

That is all so true - I agree with your thoughts wholeheartedly. I am so keen to see the next event as the best ever - these ideas I feel are easily achievable and would present little risk of failure in terms of the logistics to organise; you don't need to go overboard with lavish technology or spend big $$$. (I did note that some of the things that were promised for this year - live internet streaming and a "Dawn Service" - didn't eventuate; I'm not surprised - these things can easily fail if even one key person suddenly becomes unavailable, or if the idea is just plain unethical. I know that TeckAir used to produce DVDs of NatFlys - there could still be room for that sort of coverage.) Last night I went browsing for comments from previous NatFlys - there was a jumping castle, and more rag-and-tube displays at Narromine for instance. We must bring those back and return to the "grass roots". There must be more non-aviation events for the ladies and kids, otherwise it is a pretty disappointing holiday time. A large part of the organising was left to just one person, and there is only so much one can do; it's got to be a team effort next time.

 

I believe next year is the final year that RA-Aus has under the current contract for Temora to hold the event - it will be up for tender again for 2013 onwards. We have to put on a good show.

 

 

[Spin]

Good comments all Dave, as you have pointed out, these things all need someone or better still a team of people to make them happen, accompanied by a good dollop of goodwill.

 

I cannot help but wonder what effect the bitchfest, stirred up right here, had on attendance and on people volunteering their time and effort? I was all set to drive down this year and would have put my hand up to marshall or whatever - as I have for many other events, but I was not prepared to spend 2 full days travelling to attend what promised to be an extended, extraordinary general meeting. I have done my time on committees, boards etc. and spend quite enough time settling disputes during the week, to want to participate in what I consider a disgraceful display.

 

 

[old man emu]

I'm glad everyone had a good time at Natfly. I didn't go. Here is a copy of an email I received from RAA:

 

Hi Mark,

 

 

Happy new year!

 

 

Just advising that we have received your query. The information for the trade sites has not yet been finalised, however your contact details have been placed on the exhibitor mailing list. We aim to send that information out around the middle of January.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

On behalf of the NATFLY Secretariat

 

Lani

 

 

RA-Aus

 

P: 02 6280 4700 F: 02 6280 4775

 

PO Box 1265, Fyshwick ACT 2609

 

Well, it's nearly May and I have not received any further information. Looks like the NATFLY Secretariat's aim was a whole lot off.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[bluey the fly]

Hey Mate sorry I missed you and Karen on Saturday- I headed home and made the most of the good weather and the brownie points.Have you bought your own a/c yet?

G'day Neil. I found your plane but did not find you. I purchased a Liberty XL2 in October (10.10.10). It is a GA plane and it has been taking me some time to get my pilot's medical due to my hearing. I finally got it 2 weeks ago, so now I can get serious about upgrading. Then I will be able to fly up and visit you some time.

 

Cheers

 

Steven

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Thanks OME. Could it be that overloaded administration was partly responsible for the downturn in exhibitors? I'd like to find out.

 

We need backups in place!! Don't leave things to one person - have another two checking to see if emails have been answered by the first (especially for exhibitors' displays!). Set up a dedicated website to handle sponsorships, advertise accommodation, accept suggestions for the program, request volunteers, etc. A content management system is essential to see who's doing/done what. Talk to previous sponsors, exhibitors, the Council - what could be improved from their perspective? Why didn't previous exhibitors turn up this time? (finances, logistics...). Is the cost of sponsorship/exhibition appropriate? Can dates be changed? How can incidental costs be recouped - through merchandising? Then start planning. Confirm a planning team of 4-6. Risk assessment - can we undertake TIFs (and implications for PAX liability), live displays of STOL aircraft etc., backup personnel/volunteers, ... Keep everyone up to date via the website to take pressure off having to answer calls from individuals.

 

I have seen the Woodford Folk Festival organised so effectively with volunteers - free entry if you register and collect rubbish, clean ablutions, transport people, check entry tickets, etc. There are successful models out there we could follow.

 

 

[Admin]

Sue did a great job after taking over from Lani with the limited time she had and what she was given so my hat goes off to her...well done Sue :clap2:

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

G'day Neil. I found your plane but did not find you. I purchased a Liberty XL2 in October (10.10.10). It is a GA plane and it has been taking me some time to get my pilot's medical due to my hearing. I finally got it 2 weeks ago, so now I can get serious about upgrading. Then I will be able to fly up and visit you some time.Cheers

 

Steven

Awesome Bluey . I saw your tag and wondered... sorry I missed you but wrapped that you are moving ahead with your flying,Congratulations. Ihope you head north before next year- always a room for you both at Glass house.

 

Cheers for now.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

reading between the lines and also checking out the great photos posted so far, am I guessing correctly that the turnout was down on previous years at Narromine and if so.....my two cents worth,

 

From the photos... hundred or so aircraft turned up, so on average about 200 people flew in and guessing about the same drove in...?

 

I think to get it to be more popular and also a financial success, change the date and possibly the venue.

 

Although I know I would enjoy going, I for one will never attend if it is over easter (nothing religious...just respect for my wife and family and taking advantage of getting time to spend together) and I know of quite a few other flyers with the same sentiment.

 

Although Temora is a fantastic aerodrome, is it too far away for a lot of people to fly/drive...are there more suitable aerodromes closer and more central for people to attend and also with the facilities to handle the interests of the non flyer who gets dragged along (ie family attractions)...also commented on other posts.

 

Also comments about trade exhibits are well founded as to attend (even free space) costs money and from my own personal experience at trade shows, it can suck out quite a few thousand dollars so whilst it is important to get out there and brand build, you also need to look at the overall benefits/return.. as an example would money be better spent not going to RAA NATFLY but attending say the Bundy/Avalon airshows where you get tens of thousands of people turn up.

 

Food for thought:coffee:

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

DD I really think we would be hard pressed to find a better facility than what Temora offers. What areas were you thinking of to have it? I drove 8 hours to get there so if anyone really wants to be a part of the atmosphere, they will make the effort. The social side of it was great fun. It needs to be on a public holiday weekend to allow for traveling time. Which weekend is your preference?

 

As far as not having it at Easter time, yes, it was cold at night but beautiful days. I for one wouldnt want to be camping at Temora, or any other place, in the heat of summer or the cold of winter.

 

If Temora town itself cant provide entertainment for the rest of the family, we need to create it at the airport. We are never going to please everyone when we are a national organisation.

 

Without counting everyone I believe there were far more than 100 aircraft there.

 

With running a small business I know you need to spend money to make it! Businesses can write it all off as advertising and the ones that were there looked like they were doing a good trade. I know I purchased gear because I could see and touch it!

 

May be im out of line but I cant see any point in rehashing "where it should be" and "what time of year it should be" and so on. Temora airfield is a great facility and we have our roots laid. We just need to better organise some things and it will be an even better weekend away!

 

See you at Temora Easter 2012!

 

Scotty

 

 

[old man emu]

I support the comment that Easter is not a good time of the year to have NATFLY.

 

My first reason is that April is the month that sees the change of weather from summer heat to winter cold. It can't be pleasant camping under a wing if you can't keep warm and dry. Consider when Oshkosk is held - late summer in the July/August that is equivalent to March/April in Australia.

 

My second reason is that the Easter break is a time of special events for many, and there may be pressures that would prevent attendance at NATFLY. For some it may be the religious practices, which are best carried out in one's local church. For others not of a religious bent, it might be the chance to travel to family gatherings, or to engage in family orientated activities (Easter Show in Sydney).

 

An event like NATFLY is best held over a long weekend, but if it is not, then surely if one was keen enough to want to attend, then one could arrange to take a few days of annual holiday entitlement. The date of the event in known well enough in advance to permit such arrangements to be made.

 

As for having NATFLY at Temora, I think that from what has been reported about the involvement of the local community, it would be an insult to pull up stakes and go elsewhere. I agree that Narromine is geographically central to the Eastern States, but did the Narromine community show the support that Temora has?

 

It is true that Narromine has access to more non-aviation entertainment (if you want to bus to Dubbo), but the idea of NATFLY is to immerse oneself in aviation. If the "other half" finds it a bore, maybe she should engage in her own pastimes for a couple of days (he wrote mysogenistically).

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[turboplanner]

What I've noticed here is that virtually all the comments are bagging this year's Natfly mildly and in the nicest possible way, and making plenty of suggestions to tweak it.

 

However, you need to think more basically than that.

 

Carol has gone, so you need to look for someone with the credentials and history who can actually get a Natfly off the ground, never mind the fine tuning.

 

 

[David F]

I know of several people who didnt go as they thought all the camping was booked up. I think that Narromine is a better venue allways seemed to get a good turn out there.

 

dave

 

 

[bushpilot]

So, how do we present all the constructive feedback to the RAA Exec? It needs to be a compilation of the best of the ideas - but who judges the 'best' ideas?

 

I would suggest staying clear of venue and date change suggestions - and focus on making what we have a better event, without blowing out the cost too much..

 

 

[Admin]

We know that this time NatFly would be later in the year simply because Easter is so late however most times it is a bit earlier...here are the Easter dates from 2005 to 2016:

 

27th March 2005

 

16th April 2006

 

8th April 2007

 

23rd March 2008

 

12th April 2009

 

4th April 2010

 

24th April 2011

 

8th April 2012

 

31st March 2013

 

20th April 2014

 

5th April 2015

 

27th March 2016

 

One thing to consider re the location is that off course we all know with the size of Australia that there isn't going to be one easy place for all, so one big deciding factor is when moving further away from a dead center location is the facilities and support that is given for the event...you could look at it from a type of cost/benefit analysis...we could move right away from dead center and have the greatest of facilities etc but then the benefit of that is lost...the same goes for a dead center location with no facilities...it is a balancing act between the location and facilities/support.

 

I also note that the 2 biggest aviation events in the USA, Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun, are actually located where those on the entire West coast of USA are left out...especially Sun-n-Fun which is way down and to the right in Florida.

 

Personally as much as I don't like giving away my Easter, I think it is the best time with the extra Public Holidays and what seems to be the norm is that we can go to NatFly and still get back home for a day or so with the family before we go back to work. This is the very reason why trying to prolong the event further into the Sunday I believe will never work and why most people leave on the Sunday

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I perceive a lot of uncertainty about how Carol's role would be filled. I hear that a by-election would be called for her position, but I don't know if that would happen before the general election. Board Members aren't even sure - that doesn't say much about the Executive's administration of due process then.

 

In the absence of certainty about formal election processes, there is scope by the Constitution for the Board to co-opt organising NatFly to a sub-committee; it has to start happening right now. I will volunteer to pen an urgent letter to the Secretary this week to get such a process underway, because I am not convinced there is the motivation from any current Board Member to carry this through. I'll need to research how co-opting would work so I can word the letter properly. Anyone is welcome to PM me for any comments, and I'll send a few drafts around in a PM Conversation. How does that sound for starters?

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

David,

 

I haven't seen any evidence of the co-opting provision being used in the past, even when the situation demanded it. As part a letter, conveying a sense of urgency about such a lack of performance would highlight administrative shortcomings and impress the need to consider more volunteers through sub-committees.

 

 

[Admin]

On the sun n fun note... I may have the chance to go to sun n fun next year :clap2:

Can I carry your bags

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Maybe there needs to be some more promotion of natfly... I didnt seem to see much of it this year so it didnt really stand out...

I hope to catch up with Carol in a few weeks and talk over what promotion can be undertaken (e.g. we need a dedicated website for sponsorship, accommodation providers, exhibitors) as well as media opportunities. A communications plan with risk assessment is essential to make sure we get firm commitments and we can deliver on improvements to the event.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

The real decision that needs to be made is do we want:

 

a) a fly-in that only preaches to the converted; for all intents and purposes for members only to meet up with workshops and some vendor participation

 

or

 

b) An event that does the above but also aims to promote aviation the a larger public and be a revenue source for the organisation rather than an expense.

 

If we want a, then the current format and location are fine.

 

If we want b, then it needs to have a proper airshow, charge admission to pay for it all and preferably be held closer to a large population area.

 

I think option b is entirely feasible in economics as well as achieving the goals, but that requires something more than a few volunteers organising.

 

 

[Admin]

And remember it is still a "Flyin" and not an airshow although this year with the thanks of Lee Ungermann (ex RAAus CEO) and his associates that we had some elements of an airshow. The biggest issue I see with an airshow is that radios are not mandatory and this will have a safety aspect of closing the strip for a show when there is the potential for incoming aircraft without radios...although I note that as I don't have an ERSA here at the moment is Temora CTAF-R?

 

As BlackRod says, I also personally feel that we have some ways yet to conquer the "Flyin" component of NatFly however Temora has been a great way to start

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

The biggest issue I see with an airshow is that radios are not mandatory and this will have a safety aspect of closing the strip for a show when there is the potential for incoming aircraft without radios...

Temora is a certified aerodrome, so yes, radio required. We're also required to read NOTAMs, so "airfield closed saturday between 10 and 16 local" is all it should really take.

There are plenty of fly-in airshows at certified and non-certified airfields around the country every year, frequented by many recreational aircraft. If it's not an issue for them, it shouldn't be an issue for us.